Changes

:OK.  So that gets to some of the specifics.  I don't believe the question here is whether a person can teach today holding those views, and I agree with you on that.  Holding those views and communicating them today in a classroom as doctrinal is different discussion for a different time and place.  The question for this bio page is, Was it illegal for an employee of a local school district to hold CPUSA membership, as I understand the question to be.  Merits of the law is an entirely different matter.

:OK.  So that gets to some of the specifics.  I don't believe the question here is whether a person can teach today holding those views, and I agree with you on that.  Holding those views and communicating them today in a classroom as doctrinal is different discussion for a different time and place.  The question for this bio page is, Was it illegal for an employee of a local school district to hold CPUSA membership, as I understand the question to be.  Merits of the law is an entirely different matter.

:Then I can assume we also may agree using the same language to describe McCarthy that has been used to describe a few recent despicable mass murderers in history is clearly over the top and out of bounds.  Was McCarthy a monoster? I don't know, perhaps.  Was he human? Yes.  McCarthy is the godfather of two of Robert F. Kennedy's living children.  Clearly, clearly, the depications of McCarthy elsewhere as a subhuman, if not inhuman, or non-human really say more about McCarthy's detractors than the do McCarthy.

:Then I can assume we also may agree using the same language to describe McCarthy that has been used to describe a few recent despicable mass murderers in history is clearly over the top and out of bounds.  Was McCarthy a monoster? I don't know, perhaps.  Was he human? Yes.  McCarthy is the godfather of two of Robert F. Kennedy's living children.  Clearly, clearly, the depictions of McCarthy elsewhere as a subhuman, if not inhuman, or non-human really say more about McCarthy's detractors than the do McCarthy.

:An editor here in Conservapedia, who identies himself as being 16 yrs old, told me Arthur Miller testified before McCarthy's Committee.  Where did her learn that junk? These are the living lies I hope we can finally put an end to.

:An editor here in Conservapedia, who identifies himself as being 16 yrs old, told me Arthur Miller testified before McCarthy's Committee.  Where did her learn that junk? These are the living lies I hope we can finally put an end to.

:Simply put, McCarthy was half right, and half wrong.  Likewise many of McCarthy's critics were then, and remain, half right and half wrong.  Let's not whitewash ''the facts that we do know now'', any further.  "Ignorant Armies clashed by night".  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:22, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:Simply put, McCarthy was half right, and half wrong.  Likewise many of McCarthy's critics were then, and remain, half right and half wrong.  Let's not whitewash ''the facts that we do know now'', any further.  "Ignorant Armies clashed by night".  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:22, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Actually, the question is, does getting someone fired and/or ending their teaching career qualify as "ruining" someone's life. I believe it certainly can. At the least it is a detriment. And I don't know why you assume "we may also agree" that saying "McCarthy ruined innocent lives" qualifies as a comparison to Joseph Stalin. I can only assume you missed my response, so I'll repeat it here and italicize it so you'll be sure to see it.:

Actually, the question is, does getting someone fired and/or ending their teaching career qualify as "ruining" someone's life. I believe it certainly can. At the least it is a detriment. And I don't know why you assume "we may also agree" that saying "McCarthy ruined innocent lives" qualifies as a comparison to Joseph Stalin. I can only assume you missed my response, so I'll repeat it here and italicize it so you'll be sure to see it.:

''I did not introduce the expression "ruined innocent lives" into this discussion.  I responded to RSchlafley's question about whose lives McCarthy ruined by asking what he meant by "ruined," whether it applied to getting someone fired or ending their career. Second, you're twisting English usage here in an attempt to ascribe a comparison I would not have made even if I HAD stated "Joseph McCarthy ruined innocent lives." The fact that the expression "ruined innocent lives" could be applied to Stalin as well as McCarthy does not make the statement "McCarthy ruined innocent lives" a comparison with Stalin any more than saying "Bernie Ebbers is a convicted felon" qualifies as comparing the ex-Worldcom CEO to Jeffrey Dahmer.  Applying the definition of "comparison" as you have here would make the definition of the word so broad as to be meaningless. If you feel "no need to parse," don't post arguments that defy the basics of common english usage.

''I did not introduce the expression "ruined innocent lives" into this discussion.  I responded to RSchlafly's question about whose lives McCarthy ruined by asking what he meant by "ruined," whether it applied to getting someone fired or ending their career. Second, you're twisting English usage here in an attempt to ascribe a comparison I would not have made even if I HAD stated "Joseph McCarthy ruined innocent lives." The fact that the expression "ruined innocent lives" could be applied to Stalin as well as McCarthy does not make the statement "McCarthy ruined innocent lives" a comparison with Stalin any more than saying "Bernie Ebbers is a convicted felon" qualifies as comparing the ex-Worldcom CEO to Jeffrey Dahmer.  Applying the definition of "comparison" as you have here would make the definition of the word so broad as to be meaningless. If you feel "no need to parse," don't post arguments that defy the basics of common english usage.

''

''

There was an Arthur Miller mentioned during the McCarthy hearings, though I don't know of Miller himself actually being called before McCarthy. Given that he also called in Howard Fast for grilling, it wouldn't be surprising if he were. Miller did quite definitely get called before HUAC, however, and was convicted of contempt for refusing to name names. His play about the Salem Witch Trials, THE CRUCIBLE is a parable for McCarthyism, drawing some pretty biting parallels between the mentality behind Salem and the mentality behind much of the Red Scare.

There was an Arthur Miller mentioned during the McCarthy hearings, though I don't know of Miller himself actually being called before McCarthy. Given that he also called in Howard Fast for grilling, it wouldn't be surprising if he were. Miller did quite definitely get called before HUAC, however, and was convicted of contempt for refusing to name names. His play about the Salem Witch Trials, THE CRUCIBLE is a parable for McCarthyism, drawing some pretty biting parallels between the mentality behind Salem and the mentality behind much of the Red Scare.

The claim "McCarthy was right" presumes, by the way, that at issue was the premise that espionage was taking place. It should be noted that nobody during the Cold War, libaral or conservative, denied the existence of Soviet espionage. At issue was McCarthy's methods which, as I believe I've illustrated, were irresponsible, inhumane, and reckless.  

The claim "McCarthy was right" presumes, by the way, that at issue was the premise that espionage was taking place. It should be noted that nobody during the Cold War, liberal or conservative, denied the existence of Soviet espionage. At issue was McCarthy's methods which, as I believe I've illustrated, were irresponsible, inhumane, and reckless.  

--[[User:PF Fox|PF Fox]] 15:19, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

: Nobody denied Soviet expionage?! There were plenty of leftists who denied that Alger Hiss or anyone else was a spy. I also don't agree that you have illustrated what you say. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 15:35, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

==  Support from Ann Coulter ==

==  Support from Ann Coulter ==