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→Rewrite: Witnesses are evidence; "made in heaven"
(undent) If another source was found which claimed, independently, that music started in heaven, it would not count as evidence in favour of the first claim. Consider a counter-example: if a man is accused of murder by another man, the police would start to investigate the claim by looking for evidence. If a second person came forward and also accused him of murder, it would not change anything: the police might have greater cause to take the claim seriously, but they would still need to find evidence before they could proceed any further. Even if ten or twenty or a hundred people unanimously accused the man of murder, his guilt could not be proven or disproven unless there was evidence which supported their accusations.
(undent) If another source was found which claimed, independently, that music started in heaven, it would not count as evidence in favour of the first claim. Consider a counter-example: if a man is accused of murder by another man, the police would start to investigate the claim by looking for evidence. If a second person came forward and also accused him of murder, it would not change anything: the police might have greater cause to take the claim seriously, but they would still need to find evidence before they could proceed any further. Even if ten or twenty or a hundred people unanimously accused the man of murder, his guilt could not be proven or disproven unless there was evidence which supported their accusations.
Regarding our capability to sing, I do not follow your reasoning. The fact that humans can sing does not in itself suggest anything about music's origins. We can also run, hunt, build tools, swim, have sexual intercourse... Does it follow that, since humans can do these things, they too were started in heaven? [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 13:20, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
Regarding our capability to sing, I do not follow your reasoning. The fact that humans can sing does not in itself suggest anything about music's origins. We can also run, hunt, build tools, swim, have sexual intercourse... Does it follow that, since humans can do these things, they too were started in heaven? [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 13:20, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
: If various people all accused a particular person of murder, then presumably they are not all just making it up, but at least some are ''witnesses'' to the murder, and witness testimony ''is'' evidence. In fact a large proportion of the evidence tendered at court cases is the testimony of witnesses. "Evidence" is not limited to physical artifacts, and in fact physical artifacts are in some ways inferior, as physical artifacts, despite the common saying, do not "speak for themselves", but have to be interpreted by someone. Witness testimony rarely has to be interpreted: it stands on its own. The Bible says that a matter should be decided on the testimony of two or more ''witnesses''; it doesn't say anything about physical evidence. So another, independent, source, ''does'' constitute supporting evidence.
: Regarding the capability of singing, the answer is "yes and no". "Yes", if by saying "started in heaven" we mean "thought of, invented, or created in heaven". "No", if by saying "started in heaven" we mean that it was actually being done in heaven. We can only run because we were ''designed'' (i.e. by God in heaven) to run. It's likely true that we can only swim because we were ''designed'' to be able to swim. We can only have sexual intercourse because we were ''designed'' with the equipment for this. We can only sing because we were ''designed'' with this capability. That can't be said of everything. Some things, like hunting, would be a case of using abilities that were designed for other purposes. But in each of the things I just mentioned, I believe that it would be the case that we were designed with those capabilities.
: Whether that constitutes "began in heaven" depends on the meaning of that term. I didn't write it, so I'm not sure exactly what it means.
: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:03, 8 May 2008 (EDT)