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Debate:Is there 1 God or are there many gods? (view source)
Revision as of 05:26, June 3, 2008
, 05:26, June 3, 2008no edit summary
No, I can't say that I've heard of it before. [[User:Ultimahero|Ultimahero]] 02:05, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
No, I can't say that I've heard of it before. [[User:Ultimahero|Ultimahero]] 02:05, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
:ultimahero, god isn't the biggest thing in existence, because im pretty sure that he can control his size, and he could make a rock so big that he couldn't lift it, just like he could make a square circle (he created the concept of a circular circle so he could make a square one). and ultimahero, saying that god transcends all physical laws is true if you believe in him, but that means that there is no proof whatsoever otherwise (and could you give me a few logical examples), and account for YOUR god being true, not some other one
:ultimahero, god isn't the biggest thing in existence, because im pretty sure that he can control his size, and he could make a rock so big that he couldn't lift it, just like he could make a square circle (he created the concept of a circular circle so he could make a square one). and ultimahero, saying that god transcends all physical laws is true if you believe in him, but that means that there is no proof whatsoever otherwise (and could you give me a few logical examples), and account for YOUR god being true, not some other one
Let’s clarify this right now: I’m a Christian. Therefore, I am going to argue in favor of the Christian God of the Bible, according to Christian definitions. So, from Christian a definition, yes, God is the biggest thing in existence. He is omnipresent, meaning that He is everywhere all at once. Also, the Bible teaches that God doesn’t change. So, if God stops being omnipresent, then He has changed, hasn’t He? So that can’t be, because that would go against what Scriptures teaches. The Biblical God can’t change and therefore must constantly be the biggest thing in the universe.
Now, a rock is something that is a physical object. And a physical object is limited in size. It has a set amount of mass, density, etc. So how can God (who is infinite) make a rock (which is finite) into something bigger than that which is infinite? If it becomes infinite, then by definition it is no longer a rock. So it’s not possible because it is a non-sequitur. It isn’t logical.
Now, one might say that God is capable of being illogical, or perhaps changing logic, but that’s not true. God can’t be illogical. God can only do those things which are consistent with His nature. This is important. God can only do that which is consistent with His nature. For example, God is holy. Therefore, God Can’t sin, because that would violate His holy character. At the same time, God is logical. So, because He is logical, He can’t be illogical, because it would violate His nature. God did not invent logic. Logic exists because God exists. It is part of His nature, so it necessarily exists because He does. It the same in that I wouldn’t say that God invented love, mercy, righteousness, etc. To say that He invented those things would be to say that there was a time when those things didn’t exist. Also, that would mean that God changed His character to adopt those attributes into Himself. But, as I already pointed out, God doesn’t change. So, just like love, holiness and these other things exist because God exists, logic exists in the same way. It is part of Him. So, because He can’t change, He can’t do illogical things that violate His character. Therefore, He can’t make a rock so big because He can’t lift it due to it’s illogicality.
At that same point, God Can’t make squares circles because that violates logic. The First Law of Logic says that something is what is and is not what it’s not. For example, a tree is a tree. It’s not a car. Something is what it is and is not what it’s not. So, a circle is a circle, it’s not a square. And a square is a square, it’s not a circle. To make something what it’s not is a violation of this first law and therefore illogical. So it can’t be done.
As far as evidence goes, I could point of fulfilled prophecy in Scripture, or the strong validity of the Gospels and the resurrection account of Christ, or I could get into the a proof which involves the existence of logic itself. Although, I would have to ask what you would accept as evidence. Your presuppositions might make so that you can’t accept God anyways, because you automatically reject God by default. (For example, if you reject the miraculous, then you can’t accept Christianity by default because it hinges on the miraculous resurrection of Christ.) So what would you accept? [[User:Ultimahero|Ultimahero]] 01:26, 3 June 2008 (EDT)