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:::: : The data hasn't been concealed! "Concealed" from you, perhaps, but I blame that more on who you represent rather than some vague plot to get this information published without going through checks and balances. The data was peer-reviewed. The data was presented in a clear and logical manner. The data supported the conclusions. This is your run-of-the-mill publication, and has satisfied all it needs to in order to be recognized. I agree that if some person were to make an unverified claim (like all those crazy people who claim to have cloned a human being, but haven't shown the clones or released any data) and depict it as truth, then yes, that would be unscientific. But this paper hasn't done that. As for being close-minded, I believe it is you that is being close-minded. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]] 13:40, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 
:::: : The data hasn't been concealed! "Concealed" from you, perhaps, but I blame that more on who you represent rather than some vague plot to get this information published without going through checks and balances. The data was peer-reviewed. The data was presented in a clear and logical manner. The data supported the conclusions. This is your run-of-the-mill publication, and has satisfied all it needs to in order to be recognized. I agree that if some person were to make an unverified claim (like all those crazy people who claim to have cloned a human being, but haven't shown the clones or released any data) and depict it as truth, then yes, that would be unscientific. But this paper hasn't done that. As for being close-minded, I believe it is you that is being close-minded. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]] 13:40, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
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For reasons already explained, I'm not going to waste time with close-minded argument here.  If you agree that it's unscientific for others to repeat as true an unverified claim based on concealed data, then clearly say so.  Otherwise, it's a futile exercise.  Anyone at any time could make an unverified claim based on concealed data, and people could be found to defend it.  Only fools would try to reason with them.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:17, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
    
==Note re. article==
 
==Note re. article==
 
As an aside, I' wonder if someone couldn't place some information at the head of the article here?  At present, the article simply starts into a "first letter" to "a Prof. Lenski".  The article should have a little setup to introduce readers to what on Earth it's all about.  There is no reference in the article to the rest of the debate, basically.  Just an FYI.  [[User:StatsFan|StatsFan]] 13:17, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
 
As an aside, I' wonder if someone couldn't place some information at the head of the article here?  At present, the article simply starts into a "first letter" to "a Prof. Lenski".  The article should have a little setup to introduce readers to what on Earth it's all about.  There is no reference in the article to the rest of the debate, basically.  Just an FYI.  [[User:StatsFan|StatsFan]] 13:17, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
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