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→A More Specific Definition
:::What people are overlooking though is that it is the ''combination'' of techniques.... let me put it this way, the prisoners who are being waterboarded are not getting eight hours of sleep on a downy mattress, they are ''also'' being deprived of sleep and nutrition, and it is the combination of activities that has the cumulative effect of being torture.... [[User:Pandeism|Pandeism]] 23:58, 12 November 2007 (EST)
:::What people are overlooking though is that it is the ''combination'' of techniques.... let me put it this way, the prisoners who are being waterboarded are not getting eight hours of sleep on a downy mattress, they are ''also'' being deprived of sleep and nutrition, and it is the combination of activities that has the cumulative effect of being torture.... [[User:Pandeism|Pandeism]] 23:58, 12 November 2007 (EST)
::::I hadn't thought of that, but I see what you mean. Perhaps - and this is a wild suggestion - we could keep prisoners in a safe, hygienic environment and accord them some measure of dignity; even supplying religious texts on request. Perhaps real terrorists might reconsider their extremism when they encounter the Great Satan firsthand. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 00:21, 13 November 2007 (EST)
::::I hadn't thought of that, but I see what you mean. Perhaps - and this is a wild suggestion - we could keep prisoners in a safe, hygienic environment and accord them some measure of dignity; even supplying religious texts on request. Perhaps real terrorists might reconsider their extremism when they encounter the Great Satan firsthand. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 00:21, 13 November 2007 (EST)
:::::I have to say I agree, though for different reasons. I seriously doubt that they would give up their Jihad, they're fundamentalists, they've substituted their beliefs for reality. The reason torture cannot be condoned is that to be the good guys, you have to be the good guys. You can't destroy a monster by becoming one, because then all that's left is another monster. People seem to think that torture has to leave physical scars or it isn't torture, when the truth is that you can cause monstrous amounts of pain without leaving a single mark.
Or you can cause no pain at all, extended bouts of complete sensory deprivation can lead to extreme anxiety and hallucinations, keep a person in long enough and their sense of self breaks down. But the question is what do all these things have in common? It isn't physical damage, it's the mental damage. A person who is raped can often heal the physical wounds in days, yet the mental damage can last a lifetime. Torture is an act that strips a human being of their status as a human being, and doing that lessens us. What is it to be safe if that safety means we must be monsters to attain it?
In the end, it's not about being safe. When I speak to my grand-children, I don't want to tell them I bought my safety with the pain of others. I want to be able to tell them that I accepted greater danger because it meant doing the right thing.