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Talk:Extraterrestrial life (view source)
Revision as of 22:40, August 24, 2008
, 22:40, August 24, 2008no edit summary
::::: You are correct about the impossibility of a moving Earth being able to be and remain at the centre. I consider that argument to be like an imperfect but still-valid analogy; it can only be pushed so far. But remember that it was Hubble (and others) who saw the significance and rejected it for philosophical reasons.
::::: You are correct about the impossibility of a moving Earth being able to be and remain at the centre. I consider that argument to be like an imperfect but still-valid analogy; it can only be pushed so far. But remember that it was Hubble (and others) who saw the significance and rejected it for philosophical reasons.
::::: As for being humble, I think evolution produces both extremes of views. If we are here by evolution and not God, then on the one hand we are the pinnacle of creation, responsible only to ourselves, and masters of our own destiny. That can produce extreme pride in ourselves. On the other hand, we are nothing more than a cosmic accident, existing for a brief moment in the time and then gone. We are essentially worthless. That can produce extreme depression (and is likely responsible for much of the current problem with youth suicide, depression, low self-esteem, etc.). Conversely, if we are made in the image of God and are the centre of his creation, that means that we are special. But we are not the products of our own ingenuity, but created by someone greater, compared to Whom we are but dust ({{Bible ref|Psalm|103|14}}), so we take pride in our Creator, not in our own abilities. That's a fare more balanced viewpoint.
::::: As for being humble, I think evolution produces both extremes of views. If we are here by evolution and not God, then on the one hand we are the pinnacle of creation, responsible only to ourselves, and masters of our own destiny. That can produce extreme pride in ourselves. On the other hand, we are nothing more than a cosmic accident, existing for a brief moment in the time and then gone. We are essentially worthless. That can produce extreme depression (and is likely responsible for much of the current problem with youth suicide, depression, low self-esteem, etc.). Conversely, if we are made in the image of God and are the centre of his creation, that means that we are special. But we are not the products of our own ingenuity, but created by someone greater, compared to Whom we are but dust ({{Bible ref|Psalm|103|14}}), so we take pride in our Creator, not in our own abilities. That's a fare more balanced viewpoint.
I will preface this by saying that we have digressed beyond talking about extraterrestrial life. As I have already expanded on the [[Extraterrestrial_life#Christian_Views_on_Extraterrestrial_Life|Christian views on extraterrestrial life]] section, so what follows is simply in the spirit of good-natured discussion:
As far as Hubble and others concerning an Earth-centered model of the universe, I feel that they "rejected" it because it simply doesn't make sense assuming an inflationary, Big Bang model of the universe, for which even then there was already plenty of supporting evidence. Just thinking about it, an Earth-centered view is needlessly egocentric on our part, and just simply silly (sorry). You yourself pointed out ''the impossibility of a moving Earth being able to be and remain at the centre.''
While your point that evolution does not create "new information" is true in a strict sense since no matter is ever created or destroyed, in this case it does not apply because rearranging existing gene sequences can indeed create something better than the sum of its parts. With your logic, such things as a baby growing into a man, a seed germinating into a tree, etc. would be impossible if one assumes biology can not by itself create "new information." Refer to: http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm
''How do you know that a being cannot exist that (a) knows everything, and (b) is not complicated? '' Because if it knows everything, it '''is''' complicated, no matter how many theologians you get to say otherwise. Possessing knowledge of everything can not in any way make you simple.
As far as the idea that teaching evolution encourages suicide, depression, etc.--personally I find it ridiculous. First of all, evolution is not incompatible with Christianity or any other religion. In fact, in the US, over 70% of people that believe in evolution also believe in God. Source: http://www.gallup.com/poll/27847/Majority-Republicans-Doubt-Theory-Evolution.aspx However, evolution is certainly incompatible with a literal interpretation of the Old Testament, but then again, so is every aspect of modern life unless one proposes that we reinstate a harsh penalty for wearing mixed fibers {{Bible ref|Leviticus|19|19}}. A literal interpretation of the Old Testament is perhaps as useful to us a literal interpretation of ancient Egyptian mythology, say, or tribal African cults.
Next, even if there is a higher amount of [[atheism]] among evolutionists, it is not clear why atheism itself should produce depression. If anything, realizing you have such a short amount of time to actually exist encourages people to make the most of it--not waste time being depressed about it (personally speaking, even when I believed in God, I was prone to depression).
To me, what's more depressing is sincerely believing that the most important thing in your life is to be "born again." Then, once you've done that, what are you ultimately doing with your life save for waiting around to die--so you can move on to your glorious eternal salvation? It's suffocating, and ultimately makes Earthly life feel very pointless. Atheism makes people "seize the day." I am sometimes frightened by some of my Christian friends because they have a propensity to say things that imply ''anticipation or excitement about their own personal demise''. Sounds suicidal to me. Why haven't they ended it themselves? Because that would give them the "bad" afterlife. Just because there is less suicide among theists doesn't mean they are actually enjoying an existence they believe to be transitory. (Also I'm sorry if I have offended you, this is just my position as a secular conservative).
All this aside, I have made the edits to the particular section in question. What is the opinion on this?
--[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 18:40, 24 August 2008 (EDT)