Changes

As for Orwell expressing Conservative as well as anti-authoritarian views in 1984 and Animal Farm, I don't think so. So in 1984 Wintson's having sex with prostitutes, having a love affair in strict contradiction of the state's suppression of extra-marital affairs for purposes other than reproduction, talking about how victory can only come with a proletarian revolution and so on. In animal farm the farmers represent conservatism and capitalism in Romanov's Russia and the West - and the (Communists) evil is measured by their similarities with the farmers. I mean, the ending of the book is that the west is just as bad as the east. I don't think he expresses particularly anti-conservative views in the texts, but he certainly doesn't express pro-conservative views. Some of the arguments that are presented for why his views are particularly conservative are also quite incorrect. Wanting a wealthier society isn't strictly conservative, Marx for example advocated Communism because he thought it would produce a wealthier society. Patriotism is also hardly something Conservatism has a monopoly on, again if you want to go to the extreme other end of the section you'll find Stalin talking about the Great Patriotic War, Mother Russia, etc.  It's worth adding that where he expresses his most patriotic views is probably in The Lion and the Unicorn, in which he outlines quite clearly that in order to be a patriot (at this point in time meaning wanting to defeat Hitler) one had to be a socialist, a new kind of patriot. That is earlier on in his career (1941) but it's still noteworthy when considering what he means by being a patriot.[[User:JohnyGoodman|JohnyGoodman]] 23:15, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

As for Orwell expressing Conservative as well as anti-authoritarian views in 1984 and Animal Farm, I don't think so. So in 1984 Wintson's having sex with prostitutes, having a love affair in strict contradiction of the state's suppression of extra-marital affairs for purposes other than reproduction, talking about how victory can only come with a proletarian revolution and so on. In animal farm the farmers represent conservatism and capitalism in Romanov's Russia and the West - and the (Communists) evil is measured by their similarities with the farmers. I mean, the ending of the book is that the west is just as bad as the east. I don't think he expresses particularly anti-conservative views in the texts, but he certainly doesn't express pro-conservative views. Some of the arguments that are presented for why his views are particularly conservative are also quite incorrect. Wanting a wealthier society isn't strictly conservative, Marx for example advocated Communism because he thought it would produce a wealthier society. Patriotism is also hardly something Conservatism has a monopoly on, again if you want to go to the extreme other end of the section you'll find Stalin talking about the Great Patriotic War, Mother Russia, etc.  It's worth adding that where he expresses his most patriotic views is probably in The Lion and the Unicorn, in which he outlines quite clearly that in order to be a patriot (at this point in time meaning wanting to defeat Hitler) one had to be a socialist, a new kind of patriot. That is earlier on in his career (1941) but it's still noteworthy when considering what he means by being a patriot.[[User:JohnyGoodman|JohnyGoodman]] 23:15, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

'''<Response to Ed Poor's comments in order>''' I express my anger over ''these'' violations because some editors ''seem'' to be ''defending''(!) Pinochet. '''US Support'': So what? It wasn't the first time the CIA meddled in another country causing chaos. Salvador Allende was a '''democratically elected''' leader, but since he was guilty of the indefensible crime of being a Socialist, the Nixon administration supported a military coup. (If I remember right, Colin Powell once referred to this act as a bad moment in our history). '''Transitioned to Democracy''': Almost two decades later.... '''Communists''': Much of my ancestry fled from Russia to come to the United States, so rest assured, I most certainly am angry about the human rights violations that happened (and are still happening...) there. Why than haven't I mentioned it? Because nobody defended Stalin... [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 08:54, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

'''Response to Ed Poor's comments in order''': I express my anger over ''these'' violations because some editors ''seem'' to be ''defending''(!) Pinochet. '''US Support''': So what? It wasn't the first time the CIA meddled in another country causing chaos. Salvador Allende was a '''democratically elected''' leader, but since he was guilty of the indefensible crime of being a Socialist, the Nixon administration supported a military coup. (If I remember right, Colin Powell once referred to this act as a bad moment in our history). '''Transitioned to Democracy''': Almost two decades later.... '''Communists''': Much of my ancestry fled from Russia to come to the United States, so rest assured, I most certainly am angry about the human rights violations that happened (and are still happening...) there. Why than haven't I mentioned it? Because nobody here has defended Stalin... [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 08:54, 2 September 2008 (EDT)