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Talk:PNAS Response to Letter (view source)
Revision as of 20:47, September 20, 2008
, 20:47, September 20, 2008reply re: Point 5
So weighting on the basis of the number of replicates considerably increases the P-value. It remains, however, well within the range of statistical significance (0>P<0.05). If we hold that Lenski should have weighted on the basis of replicates then he should have rejected the null hypothesis and reached exactly the same conclusions that he did. The entire paper would have been exactly the same except the sentence “the result is extremely significant (P<0.0001) whether or not….” Would read “the result is significant (P<0.04) whether or not”. Point 5 establishes one number and an “extremely”. Point 5, therefore, has no weight (excuse the pun).
So weighting on the basis of the number of replicates considerably increases the P-value. It remains, however, well within the range of statistical significance (0>P<0.05). If we hold that Lenski should have weighted on the basis of replicates then he should have rejected the null hypothesis and reached exactly the same conclusions that he did. The entire paper would have been exactly the same except the sentence “the result is extremely significant (P<0.0001) whether or not….” Would read “the result is significant (P<0.04) whether or not”. Point 5 establishes one number and an “extremely”. Point 5, therefore, has no weight (excuse the pun).
--[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 15:18, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
--[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 15:18, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
: Sorry, Toffeeman, a falsehood is still a falsehood. Based on your own posting, if Lenski had applied the Whitlock Z-transform paper in a logical manner, the results would not have been nearly as striking as Lenski claimed (his paper said the results were "extremely significant"). Moreover, I found Lenski's description of his application of the Whitlock paper to be particularly misleading. Lenski's use of "whether or not"<ref>"We also used the Z-transformation method (49) to combine the probabilities from our three experiments, and '''the result is extremely significant (P < 0.0001) whether or not''' the experiments are weighted by the number of independent Cit+ mutants observed in each one." (Lenski paper at 7902).</ref> obscures the basic error that he did not apply Whitlock's paper in the straightforward, correct manner. I think the wording in the Lenski paper deliberately obscures this falsehood from the reader.
: People have free will to embrace and defend falsehoods. I don't expect them to change quickly or admit they were wrong. But you'll find me defending and promoting the truth.
: Point 5 remains valid and the falsehood remains uncorrected by PNAS or Lenski. Four other points in higher priority remain uncorrected by them also.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:47, 20 September 2008 (EDT)