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Debate:God, Earth and Global Warming (view source)
Revision as of 00:25, March 21, 2007
, 00:25, March 21, 2007a response
: Are you addressing the messenger? or the message? --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 18:22, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
: Are you addressing the messenger? or the message? --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 18:22, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
:: Both. I do not believe Mr. Gore, the science has been politicized, I wish I could remember the paper(s) cited by Michael Crichton and how he described his conversion from a believer of global warming to a skeptic (He is an M.D/scientist, in addition to being a successful novelist). That industrialization has wrought changes in our environment is clear, whether such changes are the direct/indirect cause for changes in the environment (whatever they may be) are dependent on models, which tend to be unreliable. I commented about Mr. Gore's own usage of electricity in his home (per news stories) since it exposes the fundamental hypocrisy in his position. And yes, I believe that mankind does have the wisdom to do the right thing, it is not clear what that has to be on the issue of "global warming". The Wall Street Journal has carried several articles that show the true costs of what Mr. Gore proposes and the cost to mankind - far different from what Mr. Gore would have us believe. [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 19:10 (CDT), Mar 20, 2007
:: Both. I do not believe Mr. Gore, the science has been politicized, I wish I could remember the paper(s) cited by Michael Crichton and how he described his conversion from a believer of global warming to a skeptic (He is an M.D/scientist, in addition to being a successful novelist). That industrialization has wrought changes in our environment is clear, whether such changes are the direct/indirect cause for changes in the environment (whatever they may be) are dependent on models, which tend to be unreliable. I commented about Mr. Gore's own usage of electricity in his home (per news stories) since it exposes the fundamental hypocrisy in his position. And yes, I believe that mankind does have the wisdom to do the right thing, it is not clear what that has to be on the issue of "global warming". The Wall Street Journal has carried several articles that show the true costs of what Mr. Gore proposes and the cost to mankind - far different from what Mr. Gore would have us believe. [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 19:10 (CDT), Mar 20, 2007
::: On the politicizing of global warming, I did a quick Google search for "global warming" and found a wealth of information. "Philip Cooney, an oil industry lobbyist now working for Exxon Mobil, conceded during a congressional hearing yesterday that while he was chief of staff of the White House Council on Environmental Quality he watered down reports on the adverse effects of man-made emissions on the planet's climate." [http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21418971-2703,00.html] Or a few more [http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn11417-us-fudging-of-climate-science--details-revealed-.html] [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17704056/] [http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/scientists-muzzled/2007/03/20/1174153066947.html] [http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-climate20mar20,1,1483477.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&track=crosspromo] [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/washington/20climate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin] [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=26&objectid=10429750]. I do consider Gore a bit of an alarmist and buying carbon allocations (a reasonable way for dealing with things globally - dealing with tons rather than pounds) can be dodgy , however that does not change the underlying findings of human influence on the make up of the atmosphere and the impact of that. While he has energized some people into doing more to fight global warming on a personal and local level, he has unfortunately also added to the politicalness of the debate. One of the bits that was not taken into account in the various climate models until more recently is global dimming [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/] [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15809.htm] [http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/globaldimming.asp] which has masked the effect of global warming - now with cleaner burring cars and trapping ash from smoke stacks, this is becoming more of an issue and accelerating global warming. Backing off of the politics and even most of the science - lets look at the worst case situations (however far from reality they may be) - whats the worst that can happen if global warming is right and we do nothing about it? What is the worst that can happen if global warming is wrong and we try to do something about the incorrect model? Which is the world you want to live in? --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 20:25, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
The top comment reminds me of an oft told joke. A religious man is on the roof of a burning house. The fire company holds the trampolene and tells him to jump. He says: "No, God will save me." A helicopter and lowers a ladder to him and tells him to climb. He says: "God will save me." Then the house collapses, he dies and goes to heaven. He asks God why he didn't save him. God answers: "I sent the fire company and the helicopter. What more did you want?"
The top comment reminds me of an oft told joke. A religious man is on the roof of a burning house. The fire company holds the trampolene and tells him to jump. He says: "No, God will save me." A helicopter and lowers a ladder to him and tells him to climb. He says: "God will save me." Then the house collapses, he dies and goes to heaven. He asks God why he didn't save him. God answers: "I sent the fire company and the helicopter. What more did you want?"
The Bible tells us that God gave man the tools to exploit the earth. It also tells what happens (the flood, the distruction of Judah, ..) when man lacks the wisdom to use those tools wisely. God gave us the brains to detect global warming in time to stop it. He gave us the means to stop it. The question is, do we have the wisdom?
The Bible tells us that God gave man the tools to exploit the earth. It also tells what happens (the flood, the distruction of Judah, ..) when man lacks the wisdom to use those tools wisely. God gave us the brains to detect global warming in time to stop it. He gave us the means to stop it. The question is, do we have the wisdom?