Changes

: It might be useful to include that information.  I think many people are surprised that, sadly, one in five pregnancies end in miscarriage.  Including miscarriage rates will give a context/comparison.  BTW - PJR - I didn't remove that second fact in my last edit.  I combined it with the first, and changed the language a bit to clarify.  (I put in your numerical change when I updated.)  When I first read this article, I thought that the fact was referring to maternal deaths from abortion.  Thus the clarification.  We should probably clarify the Spain statistic as well.  --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:38, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

: It might be useful to include that information.  I think many people are surprised that, sadly, one in five pregnancies end in miscarriage.  Including miscarriage rates will give a context/comparison.  BTW - PJR - I didn't remove that second fact in my last edit.  I combined it with the first, and changed the language a bit to clarify.  (I put in your numerical change when I updated.)  When I first read this article, I thought that the fact was referring to maternal deaths from abortion.  Thus the clarification.  We should probably clarify the Spain statistic as well.  --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:38, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Hsmom, you kept the 1.3 million, but it now reads "about nearly"!  And you removed the hourly figure, which I felt was useful to show.  I didn't realise that the (former) second point could be read as referring to maternal deaths, but the problem I have with the altered wording is that it sounds like whether or not abortions are counted as deaths is an arbitrary decision ("''If'' abortions are recognized as deaths...").

:: Hsmom, you kept the 1.3 million, but it now reads "about nearly"!  And you removed the hourly figure, which I felt was useful to show.  I didn't realise that the (former) second point could be read as referring to maternal deaths, but the problem I have with the altered wording is that it sounds like whether or not abortions are counted as deaths is an arbitrary decision ("''If'' abortions are recognized as deaths...").

:: Are miscarriages 25-50% (Brossa) or 20% (Hsmom)?  I can't quickly find an accurate figure on abortions per pregnancy, but it appears that it could be around the 20% figure, in which case it might be true that abortions exceed miscarriages.

:: Are miscarriages 25-50% (Brossa) or 20% (Hsmom)?  I can't quickly find an accurate figure on abortions per pregnancy, but it appears that it could be around the 20% figure, in which case it might be true that abortions exceed miscarriages.

 

:::Prospective studies of women trying to conceive demonstrate spontaneous pregnancy loss rates of around thirty percent before 20 weeks of pregnancy (31%<ref>Wilcox AJ et al. (1988) Incidence of early loss of pregnancy ''NEJM'' 319(4):189-94 </ref>, 32% <ref>Wang X et al. (2003) Conception, early pregnancy loss, and time to clinical pregnancy: a population-based prospective study.  ''Fertil Steril'' 79(3):577-84</ref>, 31% <ref>Zinaman MJ et al. (1996) Estimates of human fertility and pregnancy loss'' Fertil Steril'' 65(3):503-9</ref>). ''If'' you define pregnancy as starting at fertilization rather than at implantation (medical societies do not, but some medical individuals and religious groups do), then these studies necessarily will ''underestimate'' the actual rate of early pregnancy loss because they depend on a positive urine or serum hCG test as a criteria for pregnancy. Fertilized eggs that do not implant will not result in an elevated hCG level. It is impossible to state with certainty what percentage of fertilized eggs do not implant; estimates range from 30-70%. These studies also do not count miscarriages which occur after 20 weeks of gestation.--[[User:Brossa|Brossa]] 12:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Prospective studies of women trying to conceive demonstrate spontaneous pregnancy loss rates of around thirty percent before 20 weeks of pregnancy (31%<ref>Wilcox AJ et al. (1988) Incidence of early loss of pregnancy ''NEJM'' 319(4):189-94 </ref>, 32% <ref>Wang X et al. (2003) Conception, early pregnancy loss, and time to clinical pregnancy: a population-based prospective study.  ''Fertil Steril'' 79(3):577-84</ref>, 31% <ref>Zinaman MJ et al. (1996) Estimates of human fertility and pregnancy loss'' Fertil Steril'' 65(3):503-9</ref>). ''If'' you define pregnancy as starting at fertilization rather than at implantation (medical societies do not, but some medical individuals and religious groups do), then these studies necessarily will ''underestimate'' the actual rate of early pregnancy loss because they depend on a positive urine or serum hCG test as a criteria for pregnancy. Fertilized eggs that do not implant will not result in an elevated hCG level. It is impossible to state with certainty what percentage of fertilized eggs do not implant; estimates range from 30-70%. These studies also do not count miscarriages which occur after 20 weeks of gestation.--[[User:Brossa|Brossa]] 12:09, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

 

:::Abortions are recognized as deaths, they are not recognized as murders for it is legal. About and nearly, Philips is right.--'''<font color="#6698FF">J</font><font color="#E41B17">p</font><font color="#F88017">a</font><font color="#347C17">t</font><font color="#A74AC7">t</font>'''^{[[User:Jpatt|  ]]} 11:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Abortions are recognized as deaths, they are not recognized as murders for it is legal. About and nearly, Philips is right.--'''<font color="#6698FF">J</font><font color="#E41B17">p</font><font color="#F88017">a</font><font color="#347C17">t</font><font color="#A74AC7">t</font>'''^{[[User:Jpatt|  ]]} 11:31, 14 October 2008 (EDT)