Changes

::I will add: drastic measures are necessary because anti-Catholic bigotry is a sad fact of life, and has been expressed on this site as well, and these people will argue and obfuscate and delay to prevent necesary and real change. Indeed, the whole abuse scandal has been whipped up by bigots to slander the Church - otherwise, why have not Protestant churches received the same consideration? unless this site examines similar scandals in other denominations, the section should go. This is not a site for Catholic-beating. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

::I will add: drastic measures are necessary because anti-Catholic bigotry is a sad fact of life, and has been expressed on this site as well, and these people will argue and obfuscate and delay to prevent necesary and real change. Indeed, the whole abuse scandal has been whipped up by bigots to slander the Church - otherwise, why have not Protestant churches received the same consideration? unless this site examines similar scandals in other denominations, the section should go. This is not a site for Catholic-beating. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:22, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Is the section lying? I'm all for taking out lies from the article, but if the truth "insults the Catholic church", then that's the Church's fault. If the same thing is happening in the protestant churches, then instead of [[censorship|censoring]] this article, add to the other ones. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:24, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::Is the section lying? I'm all for taking out lies from the article, but if the truth "insults the Catholic church", then that's the Church's fault. If the same thing is happening in the protestant churches, then instead of [[censorship|censoring]] this article, add to the other ones. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:24, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

::::- ::Well, I think there is a right to a Controversy section, though the scope and depth of that scandal is ridiculous. As I said early, the Church has had scandals since the beginning. If we were to add all those as child-abuse was added, there would be no credible page left. Maybe the section deserves its own page. Trying to educate others on Roman Catholicism is not helpful with this section. It becomes, trying to educate on why to avoid Catholicism. --'''<font color="#6698FF">J</font><font color="#E41B17">p</font><font color="#F88017">a</font><font color="#347C17">t</font><font color="#A74AC7">t</font>'''^{[[User:Jpatt|  ]]} 17:25, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

::::- ::Well, I think there is a right to a Controversy section, though the scope and depth of that scandal is ridiculous. As I said early, the Church has had scandals since the beginning. If we were to add all those as child-abuse was added, there would be no credible page left. Maybe the section deserves its own page. Trying to educate others on Roman Catholicism is not helpful with this section. It becomes, trying to educate on why to avoid Catholicism. --'''<font color="#6698FF">J</font><font color="#E41B17">p</font><font color="#F88017">a</font><font color="#347C17">t</font><font color="#A74AC7">t</font>'''^{[[User:Jpatt|  ]]} 17:25, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: "A" scandal?  Are you referring to all the various cases collectively?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 05:07, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: "A" scandal?  Are you referring to all the various cases collectively?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 05:07, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Yes [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 05:10, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Yes [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 05:10, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

I've been slow to comment because I don't claim any particular expertise in this area, but my ''impressions'' are as follows:

I've been slow to comment because I don't claim any particular expertise in this area, but my ''impressions'' are as follows:

* Other churches have handled the situation better.  That is, if a pedophile minister is found in the Baptist or Anglican churches (for example), they take proper action, including relieving that minister of his duties.  By contrast, the Catholic church has (probably more so in the past) tended to simply shift the offending priest to another parish and otherwise ignore the problem.

* Other churches have handled the situation better.  That is, if a pedophile minister is found in the Baptist or Anglican churches (for example), they take proper action, including relieving that minister of his duties.  By contrast, the Catholic church has (probably more so in the past) tended to simply shift the offending priest to another parish and otherwise ignore the problem.

So on the basis of my ''impressions'' (assuming they reflect reality), I would say that the section should stay, although not be as major an issue as some (anti-Christians) would like to make it.  And to point out the anti-Christian magnification of it.

So on the basis of my ''impressions'' (assuming they reflect reality), I would say that the section should stay, although not be as major an issue as some (anti-Christians) would like to make it.  And to point out the anti-Christian magnification of it.

[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:39, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:39, 25 October 2008 (EDT)