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Conservapedia talk:Obama straw poll (view source)
Revision as of 06:17, December 2, 2008
, 06:17, December 2, 2008→It is time to end this foolish endeavor. Now.
::::What Tim and JArneal have said I concur with. And point out that those opposing us continually misrepresent the situation, by claiming "censorship", the "right to decide what viewpoint to put", etc. Andy has never explicitly claimed that his viewpoint is sacrosanct (although that does seem to be implicit, and that view is supported by various people claiming as much; obviously they understand the thinking behind his actions also), and in fact Andy specifically said to me that truth is decided by logic and evidence. He didn't say that it's decided by what he thinks. But rather than argue logic and evidence, Andy, Bugler, and TK, in particular, are trying to silence the logic and evidence by claiming "censorship" (but never justifying that claim), the right to a viewpoint, that that it's "undeniable" (patently false), that this is supposedly all about how things are done on Wikipedia, and other red herrings that ''don't actually provide logic and evidence''! In doing so, they effectively demonstrate that they are wrong, as providing logically fallacious arguments is the resort of those that don't have good arguments! [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:02, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::::What Tim and JArneal have said I concur with. And point out that those opposing us continually misrepresent the situation, by claiming "censorship", the "right to decide what viewpoint to put", etc. Andy has never explicitly claimed that his viewpoint is sacrosanct (although that does seem to be implicit, and that view is supported by various people claiming as much; obviously they understand the thinking behind his actions also), and in fact Andy specifically said to me that truth is decided by logic and evidence. He didn't say that it's decided by what he thinks. But rather than argue logic and evidence, Andy, Bugler, and TK, in particular, are trying to silence the logic and evidence by claiming "censorship" (but never justifying that claim), the right to a viewpoint, that that it's "undeniable" (patently false), that this is supposedly all about how things are done on Wikipedia, and other red herrings that ''don't actually provide logic and evidence''! In doing so, they effectively demonstrate that they are wrong, as providing logically fallacious arguments is the resort of those that don't have good arguments! [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:02, 2 December 2008 (EST)
:::::Philip, Tim, JArneal, what I said was, in addition to the parts you addressed is:
<blockquote>
'''"Since Conservapedia has officially eschewed a "mobocracy" what in the world is going on here? Can you gentlemen please take this where it belongs, to email? And yes, Philip, I understand your idea of the wiki format is different from what I think, what Andy thinks, what your fellow Administrators think. But you and Tim have always known that from the very beginning. It isn't like it was sprung on you by surprise, is it?"'''
</blockquote>
:::::Yes, I realize you disagree. And I also realize you wouldn't accept that what you claim Andy (and others) are doing, is exactly what you (and others) did to me, at one time. No proof presented to me, nothing. No right to confront accusers, etc. But it seems to me you have a double standard, depending upon the situation, and if you agree or disagree with it. Can you, Philip, disagree with your employer, or their decisions about schedules? Are you allowed to argue publicly about cut-backs? I don't think so. Taking the job of an Admin, you by necessity forfeit certain rights others have. I think your claim of being able to wear "two hats", be at one turn an Admin, and as it suits you, an editor of equal standing with the majority of CP users, is a fallacy. I am not one of those clamoring for your removal, odd as that might seem to some. I am, however, looking for a resolution, and an end to this public family squabble short of blocking and removal as an Administrator. Someone has to give. IMO, those "someones" should be those who Andy has given his trust to, and endowed them with special rights others don't have, out of common courtesy. Can you guys please take this to email? --<font color="#1E90FF" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:TK|₮K]]</font><sup><font color="DC143C">[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]</font></sup> 01:17, 2 December 2008 (EST)