Changes

I don't think either Billy or Tim really understand certain aspects of the crusades. First of all, Billy said there was no such thing as a just war, but really there are just reasons to fight. Not all the crusades were just but to say that no war is just is false. Billy quoted "Love thy neighbor as thy self." That's right but sometimes you need to choose the lesser of sins. Which is worse,

I don't think either Billy or Tim really understand certain aspects of the crusades. First of all, Billy said there was no such thing as a just war, but really there are just reasons to fight. Not all the crusades were just but to say that no war is just is false. Billy quoted "Love thy neighbor as thy self." That's right but sometimes you need to choose the lesser of sins. Which is worse,

to let the defenceless be slaghtered or to defend the defenceless? Either way you're violating the commandment. Which is why there is reconciliation.

to let the defenseless be slaughtered or to defend the defenseless? Either way you're violating the commandment. Which is why there is reconciliation.

Double Edge

Double Edge

I Hate to say it but I Agree with Billy here, but not for the same reasons.

I Hate to say it but I Agree with Billy here, but not for the same reasons.

You can't justify a war just to protect pilgrims. It was not necesary for christians to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem.  Unlike Islam Christianity does NOT requre pilgrimages.  Jerusalem was nothing more than a tourist attraction.  The Christian Pilgrims should have been smart enough to not go there because they could be killed.  There is no justification for the crusades as a "Holy War."  Christianity is not a violent religeon.  We do not start wars just because some Christians get murdered, if we did, we would be at war with China and many other countries that persecute christians.  A Country has a right to controll who comes into that country.  The Muslims had a right to control who came to Jerusalem.  This does not mean that they were justified in killing the christians, but the christians should not have assumed the right to go wherever they wanted regardless of the wishes of the people who live there.  If muslims all of a sudden decided that they wanted to make pilgrimages to America for some reason, and did not think that the American government should have a say in the matter, we wouldn't let them would we?  There may have been justification for a political war against the muslims, if they were a threat to the the european countries.  Even if there was reason for a political war, the crusades went way too far, and there was no justification for a holy war.  The Pope was wrong to promise spiritual benifits to those who fought in the war.  He tricked many people into joining the crusades because they thought that it would make them go to heaven if they died.  Also most of the crusades were only fought for ambition and plunder.

You can't justify a war just to protect pilgrims. It was not necessary for Christians to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem.  Unlike Islam Christianity does NOT require pilgrimages.  Jerusalem was nothing more than a tourist attraction.  The Christian Pilgrims should have been smart enough to not go there because they could be killed.  There is no justification for the crusades as a "Holy War."  Christianity is not a violent religion.  We do not start wars just because some Christians get murdered, if we did, we would be at war with China and many other countries that persecute Christians.  A Country has a right to control who comes into that country.  The Muslims had a right to control who came to Jerusalem.  This does not mean that they were justified in killing the Christians, but the Christians should not have assumed the right to go wherever they wanted regardless of the wishes of the people who live there.  If Muslims all of a sudden decided that they wanted to make pilgrimages to America for some reason, and did not think that the American government should have a say in the matter, we wouldn't let them would we?  There may have been justification for a political war against the Muslims, if they were a threat to the the European countries.  Even if there was reason for a political war, the crusades went way too far, and there was no justification for a holy war.  The Pope was wrong to promise spiritual benefits to those who fought in the war.  He tricked many people into joining the crusades because they thought that it would make them go to heaven if they died.  Also most of the crusades were only fought for ambition and plunder.

Tim

Tim