Changes

:in my experience people struggle with the concept of a substitution mutation increasing information. Duplication is much easier to understand. Try [http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=34156 this]. If you're still not getting through, you need to make sure the subject has an appropriate understanding of the definitions of information and new information. [[User:Alexkm|Alexkm]] 09:59, 13 February 2009 (EST)

:in my experience people struggle with the concept of a substitution mutation increasing information. Duplication is much easier to understand. Try [http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=34156 this]. If you're still not getting through, you need to make sure the subject has an appropriate understanding of the definitions of information and new information. [[User:Alexkm|Alexkm]] 09:59, 13 February 2009 (EST)

I have no problem with understanding the idea of information addition, what I am trying to understand is why those who have problems with the idea of mutation leading to new information have issue with it.  I want to know what experiments and calculations they have done to infer this.  Just saying it does not make it so.--[[User:Able806|Able806]] 15:18, 13 February 2009 (EST)

I have no problem with understanding the idea of information addition, what I am trying to understand is why those who have problems with the idea of mutation leading to new information have issue with it.  I want to know what experiments and calculations they have done to infer this.  Just saying it does not make it so.--[[User:Able806|Able806]] 15:18, 13 February 2009 (EST)

::::A good, information-increasing point mutation that comes to mind is the [https://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/350/20/2096 LRP5 substitution], which "[enhances] skeletal mass without causing complications of osteopetrosis". Some users may be confused by the term "High-Bone-Mass Disease". If so, please see the medical definition of [http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands_split.jsp?pg=/ppdocs/us/common/dorlands/dorland/three/000030493.htm disease]. Some people are unwilling to open their minds to this being an instance of increased information. If that is the case, please proffer a definition of information in this context. [[User:MattL|MattL]] 10:48, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::A good, information-increasing point mutation that comes to mind is the [https://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/350/20/2096 LRP5 substitution], which "[enhances] skeletal mass without causing complications of osteopetrosis". Some users may be confused by the term "High-Bone-Mass Disease". If so, please see the medical definition of [http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands_split.jsp?pg=/ppdocs/us/common/dorlands/dorland/three/000030493.htm disease]. Some people are unwilling to open their minds to this being an instance of increased information. If that is the case, please proffer a definition of information in this context. [[User:MattL|MattL]] 10:48, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::: Most claims of information-increasing mutations turn out to nothing of the sort, and the linked extract of this paper does not have enough information to say one way or the other in this case.  However, a mutation that merely changes the ''quantity'' of something (mass in this case) is likely ''not'' an information-increasing mutation, just like a cake recipe that has a "mutation" in the quantity of flour is not adding new ''information''.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 21:08, 11 February 2009 (EST)

::::: Most claims of information-increasing mutations turn out to nothing of the sort, and the linked extract of this paper does not have enough information to say one way or the other in this case.  However, a mutation that merely changes the ''quantity'' of something (mass in this case) is likely ''not'' an information-increasing mutation, just like a cake recipe that has a "mutation" in the quantity of flour is not adding new ''information''.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 21:08, 11 February 2009 (EST)

I would disagree; most gene regulation is done by concentrations of protein.  Therefore changing the amounts would change the expression.  A prime example would be the insulin receptor.  This transmembrane protein is activated by insulin and causes several things to occur within the cell, however the concentration of insulin determines the order of events therefore, change the concentration gets a different result.

:::::: I would disagree; most gene regulation is done by concentrations of protein.  Therefore changing the amounts would change the expression.  A prime example would be the insulin receptor.  This transmembrane protein is activated by insulin and causes several things to occur within the cell, however the concentration of insulin determines the order of events therefore, change the concentration gets a different result. {{unsigned|Able806}}

:Can you write some simple introductory material about the [[genome]], [[genome expression]], [[regulatory protein]]s, [[gene regulation]], and [[mutation]]? Nearly all of our readers need to know about the basics before they can learn about advanced topics such as [[point mutation]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] ^{[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]} 09:39, 4 February 2009 (EST)

:Can you write some simple introductory material about the [[genome]], [[genome expression]], [[regulatory protein]]s, [[gene regulation]], and [[mutation]]? Nearly all of our readers need to know about the basics before they can learn about advanced topics such as [[point mutation]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] ^{[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]} 09:39, 4 February 2009 (EST)