Changes

:I'm not sure that a law-abiding life and a moral life are the same thing.  If I want to kill, steal, and otherwise do horrid things, and I only refrain because I'm afraid of getting caught and punished, am I, in fact, a moral person?  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 21:14, 19 February 2009 (EST)

:I'm not sure that a law-abiding life and a moral life are the same thing.  If I want to kill, steal, and otherwise do horrid things, and I only refrain because I'm afraid of getting caught and punished, am I, in fact, a moral person?  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 21:14, 19 February 2009 (EST)

::That's the irony of it. You didn't commit a crime (law-abiding) but want to or fear the consequences (not moral). You are still perceived as being good when in fact you are not. Or the person that wants to do crime thinks they are moral for not committing the crime, they are still not. Can you be good without religion?--[[User:Jpatt|jpatt]] 21:47, 19 February 2009 (EST)

::That's the irony of it. You didn't commit a crime (law-abiding) but want to or fear the consequences (not moral). You are still perceived as being good when in fact you are not. Or the person that wants to do crime thinks they are moral for not committing the crime, they are still not. Can you be good without religion? Yes --[[User:Jpatt|jpatt]] 21:47, 19 February 2009 (EST)

:::I think it's possible to be good without being religious, Jpatt.  I was raised a Roman Catholic, and was taught  (in my case at least) that because of original sin and man's inherently flawed nature, I was born into a less-than-moral state and had to use my life to follow God's guidance back into morality and  grace.  Could it also be true, though, that living a moral life for its own sake reaps its own rewards in this life?

:::I think it's possible to be good without being religious, Jpatt.  I was raised a Roman Catholic, and was taught  (in my case at least) that because of original sin and man's inherently flawed nature, I was born into a less-than-moral state and had to use my life to follow God's guidance back into morality and  grace.  Could it also be true, though, that living a moral life for its own sake reaps its own rewards in this life?

:::I've just been laid off from my job, for example, and have to spend the next 30 days training my colleagues to take over my functions to get my severance package.  It could be tempting to make the least possible effort at training so that when I'm gone, the company will acutely feel the loss.  That's not the moral thing to do, though, and I'm giving the transition my best effort.  What's relevant is that I'm not doing it because a poor effort would cost me my severance, I'm doing it because I like my colleagues and don't want their performance to suffer because I didn't help equip them to succeed.  You can be just as missed by leaving on a high note of professionalism as you can by leaving with a petty "since you don't need me, you figure it out" bailout.  The former helps you more in life, though, because it's a small world and people have long memories.  You can find that in life it's better to do the moral thing for the long term happiness and benefits it brings to you, and not just to avoid negative consequences.  Making the moral choice in how I leave this job has nothing to do with religion, but it's a moral choice all the same. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 23:10, 19 February 2009 (EST)

:::I've just been laid off from my job, for example, and have to spend the next 30 days training my colleagues to take over my functions to get my severance package.  It could be tempting to make the least possible effort at training so that when I'm gone, the company will acutely feel the loss.  That's not the moral thing to do, though, and I'm giving the transition my best effort.  What's relevant is that I'm not doing it because a poor effort would cost me my severance, I'm doing it because I like my colleagues and don't want their performance to suffer because I didn't help equip them to succeed.  You can be just as missed by leaving on a high note of professionalism as you can by leaving with a petty "since you don't need me, you figure it out" bailout.  The former helps you more in life, though, because it's a small world and people have long memories.  You can find that in life it's better to do the moral thing for the long term happiness and benefits it brings to you, and not just to avoid negative consequences.  Making the moral choice in how I leave this job has nothing to do with religion, but it's a moral choice all the same. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 23:10, 19 February 2009 (EST)

==No, it is not possible==

==No, it is not possible==