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Talk:The Chronicles of Narnia (view source)
Revision as of 05:27, July 12, 2009
, 05:27, July 12, 2009→Religious Criticisms
Finally, I just want to thank you for returning my comments. I think you have rightly motivated concerns. While we will probably disagree alot, I think we could have a very good analysis on this. Perhaps this could be moved to a debate page so that it doesn't take up to much room if discussion becomes to long. Thank-you. -[[User:Additioner|Additioner]] 20:48, 16 January 2009 (EST)
Finally, I just want to thank you for returning my comments. I think you have rightly motivated concerns. While we will probably disagree alot, I think we could have a very good analysis on this. Perhaps this could be moved to a debate page so that it doesn't take up to much room if discussion becomes to long. Thank-you. -[[User:Additioner|Additioner]] 20:48, 16 January 2009 (EST)
:I have to say, the religious criticisms need some work. It seems to me that if we want to be fair, we at least have to have some rebuttal to these criticisms, and at that point, it sort of becomes a debate, doesn't it? I would support these rebuttals below being on the page, or moving all that material to a debate page and then linking to that debate from this article.
* Endorsement of astrology - Signs seen in the stars are frequently used as an irrefutable truth by the natives of Narnia. Apologists have claimed astrology is being used to symbolize Biblical prophesy. This would mean the Narnia books are deliberately using a forbidden form of divination to represent Biblical prophesy.
''It's a childrens story. Astrology doesn't work, beavers don't talk, and Jesus wasn't a lion. That doesn't make the novels religiously flawed.''
* Prince Caspian marries Satan's daughter - Keen readers have noted that at the end "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" Prince Caspian marries the daughter of a fallen star. In the Book of Revelations stars are used to symbolize the angels who joined Satan in his rebellion against God and fell from Heaven. When asked what a star could do to be cast down from Heaven, the Narnian version of Satan declines to answer, only implying the answer would disturb Caspian and his crew.
''Again, trying to be too direct in our translations from our world to Narnia results in this kind of mistake.''
* Aslan is distinct from his Father - Despite being used as a Christ figure in "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" the prospect of a trinity is never raised. Aslan is depicted as distinct from his father, and no hint of a Holy Spirit analog surfaces. This, at best, leaves Aslan as an incomplete metaphor for Christ.
''Aslan appears in Narnia distinct from the Emperor Across the Sea, just as Jesus appeared on Earth distinct from God the Father. The similarity is basically perfect, except Aslan seems to come around more often. And I'm sure if C.S. Lewis had thought it kids would have read a Narniaziation of Acts, the Holy Spirit would have a Narnian equivalent as well.''
* Breeding between species is common - Despite Biblical injunctions against mixing species, several characters are a blend of human and non-human ancestry. The most notable of these figures is the tutor of Prince Caspian, who is part dwarf. In Narnia, dwarfs are not just a separate species, never intended to intermarry with humans, but a collection of distinct species who aren't even meant to marry each other.
''Wow. OK, first of all, it's a childrens story, and a fantasy. If we must be so literal, well, perhaps what is forbidden in our universe is not forbidden in theirs. Additionally, the books never endorse Trumpkin's (I think that was his name, right?) heritage.''
* Satanic figures used as heroes - Lucy meets a pan like character on her first visit to Narnia. The figure has horns and a lower body resembling that of a goat. Both traits are traditionally associated with artist representations of Satan, or with the pagan figure Pan, known for lasciviousness, drunkenness and sexual assault. In short, she meets a minor demon, and he becomes a "good guy."
''Yes, and there are giants, too, which are good guys, unlike Goliath. It's a fantasy. This is silly!''
* Universal Celibacy is demanded of the heroes into adulthood. Marriage is not permitted - At the conclusion of the series, three of the four human characters from "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" enter a "new" Narnia, an apparent analog for either the post apocalyptic Earth ruled by Christ or for Heaven. Susan however does not enter the new Narnia, having been excluded from further attachment to Narnia by her lifestyle on Earth. The text is vague on the specifics, but she appears to have been exercised for either pursuing a promiscuous lifestyle or for trying to find a husband. This means Narnia, intended as an analog for Heaven, does not permit those who have married or tried to marry. It's important to note that Lewis himself was celibate at the time he wrote the Narnia series and did not marry until well after their publication, as fictionalized in the movie "Shadowlands." One meaning that can be derived from Susan's exclusion is that Lewis, at the time, believed that only the celibate faithful entered the Kingdom of Heaven. Lewis' view of marriage is further highlighted by the fact that the text leaves the reader unable to tell if Susan has become a Jezebel or is pursuing a Christ centered marriage. The text seems to equate the two.
''The point that there are many married couples in Narnia that are GOOD has already been made, and made well - the beavers, Caspian and his wife, etc. Let's examine why Susan was actually banned:'' "...she says 'What wonderful memories you have! Fancy you still thinking about all those funny games we used to play when we were children.'" And Jill says, "She's interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and invitations." '' People take this to mean that because she started wearing lipstick, she can't get into heaven. That's obviously not it - it's because she's lost her faith. The lipstick is just an example of her embracing SOLELY worldly things. If she wore lipstick, but still believed in Narnia, remembered it, loved it, she would have gotten in just fine.''
Anyways, these are my objections to the objections on the page, and I think some form of them should be included. Before I make those edits, I'd like to hear what AlexC thinks. [[User:JDBowen|JDBowen]] 01:27, 12 July 2009 (EDT)