Changes

::belief #1 of Fundamentalists = Bible = literally true & inerrant. Jesus never said that. Indeed, the Bible never says that.  Jesus did not say anything about the Virgin Birth either. Nor did Jesus mention the material in Revelation. Lots of Christian theology emerged after his death (from Paul, for example) [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 23:35, 15 July 2009 (EDT)

::belief #1 of Fundamentalists = Bible = literally true & inerrant. Jesus never said that. Indeed, the Bible never says that.  Jesus did not say anything about the Virgin Birth either. Nor did Jesus mention the material in Revelation. Lots of Christian theology emerged after his death (from Paul, for example) [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 23:35, 15 July 2009 (EDT)

:::A worthy subject, and one i am still thinking through. As i stated, Jesus and Paul did not say a lot of things outright, but which their words and actions reveals they believed. First, does fundamentalism incontestably or predominantly mean that holding the Bible as "literally true" requires ignoring ignoring different literary forms, so that hyperbole is taken literally (Acts 7:54)? And that holding to plenary Divine inspiration mean that text such Eccl. 2:24 are moral directives, rather than (contextually) being revealed truth revealing to the natural man?. I think not, and i think self-professed fundamentalists such as J. Vernon McGeee (whom i do not always gree with) would either. But whether fundamentalism allows inerrancy to apply only to the original mss (and perhaps early copies) is another question).   

:::A worthy subject, and one i am still thinking through. As i stated, Jesus and Paul did not say a lot of things outright, but which their words and actions reveals they believed. But first, does fundamentalism incontestably or predominantly mean that holding the Bible as "literally true" requires ignoring ignoring different literary forms, so that hyperbole is taken literally (Acts 7:54)? And does holding to plenary Divine inspiration mean that texts such as Eccl. 2:24 are moral directives, rather than (contextually) being revealed truth as to philosophical conclusions of the natural mind?  I think literalism is not so restricted by most of them, and i think self-professed fundamentalists such as J. Vernon McGeee (whom i do not always agree with) would concur with me. But whether fundamentalism allows inerrancy to only apply to the original mss (and perhaps early copies) is another question).   

:::Did Jesus believe the Jewish Scriptures were literally true and inerrant is manifest by His frequent appeal (directly or indirectly) to them. Unlike liberals and even the commentators of the New American Bible, O.T. accounts such as Cain and Able (Gn. 4:16; cf. Heb. 1:4; 1Jn. 3:12; Jude. 1:11) the flood of Noah (Gn. 6-8; cf. Heb. 11:7; 1Pt. 3:20; 2Pt. 2:5) the tower of Babel (Gn. 11); the story of Balaam and his donkey (Numbers 22 cf. 1Pet. 2:16; Jude 1:11; Rev. 2:14) etc., which consider such to be allegorical "folk tales to teach a lesson", and events such as Exo. 19 (cf. Heb. 12:18,19) to be figures of speech, they treated these as literal events. Jesus also quoted the Scriptures as God's authoritative word to the devil, the disciples, and the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews alike. The apostles did much the same, though Paul used natural revelation in witnessing to pagans who were Scripturally ignorant. (Acts 14; 17) "The fourth edition of the United Bible Societies' Greek Testament (1993) lists 343 Old Testament quotations in the New Testament, as well as no fewer than 2,309 allusions and verbal parallels. The books most used are Psalms (79 quotations, 333 allusions), and Isaiah (66 quotations, 348 allusions). In the Book of Revelation, there are no formal quotations at all, but no fewer than 620 allusions." Furthermore, "the OT is quoted or alluded to in every NT writing except Philemon and 2 and 3 John." (http://www.theopedia.com/New_Testament_use_of_the_Old_Testament also http://www.gospeloutreach.net/bible2.html)

:::Did Jesus believe the Jewish Scriptures were literally true and inerrant is manifest by His frequent appeal (directly or indirectly) to them. Unlike liberals and even the commentators of the New American Bible, O.T. accounts such as Cain and Able (Gn. 4:16; cf. Heb. 1:4; 1Jn. 3:12; Jude. 1:11) the flood of Noah (Gn. 6-8; cf. Heb. 11:7; 1Pt. 3:20; 2Pt. 2:5) the tower of Babel (Gn. 11); the story of Balaam and his donkey (Numbers 22 cf. 1Pet. 2:16; Jude 1:11; Rev. 2:14) etc., which consider such to be allegorical "folk tales to teach a lesson", and events such as Exo. 19 (cf. Heb. 12:18,19) to be figures of speech, they treated these as literal events. Jesus also quoted the Scriptures as God's authoritative word to the devil, the disciples, and the Pharisees and unbelieving Jews alike. The apostles did much the same, though Paul used natural revelation in witnessing to pagans who were Scripturally ignorant. (Acts 14; 17) "The fourth edition of the United Bible Societies' Greek Testament (1993) lists 343 Old Testament quotations in the New Testament, as well as no fewer than 2,309 allusions and verbal parallels. The books most used are Psalms (79 quotations, 333 allusions), and Isaiah (66 quotations, 348 allusions). In the Book of Revelation, there are no formal quotations at all, but no fewer than 620 allusions." Furthermore, "the OT is quoted or alluded to in every NT writing except Philemon and 2 and 3 John." (http://www.theopedia.com/New_Testament_use_of_the_Old_Testament also http://www.gospeloutreach.net/bible2.html)

:::But as to whether Jesus and the apostles referred to Scripture as true and inerrant, i believe the evidence is that they did. And that explicit declarations are not needed for doctrines for which abundant evidence is provided for their derivation.  

:::But as to whether Jesus and the apostles referred to Scripture as true and inerrant, i believe the evidence is that they did. And that explicit declarations are not needed for doctrines for which abundant evidence is provided for their derivation.  

:::While it is true that God can preserve His word inerrant, and in fact the mss evidence for the Bible far surpasses that of all others works of like antiquity (and i think its comprehensive and often redundant nature is also rather unique among such, and which would be conducive to producing far more problematic texts than exist), it can well be that God, having supernaturally provided a perfect product, as in creation, placed man in stewardship of it, and Gods overall superintendence does not mean He will override all our negligence, but He also enables making such evident.  

:::While it is true that God can preserve His word inerrant, it can well be that God, having supernaturally provided a perfect product, as in creation, placed man in stewardship of it, and God's overall superintendence does not mean He will override all our negligence, but He also enables making such evident. As it is, the mss evidence for the Bible far surpasses that of all other volumes of like antiquity, and i think its comprehensive and often redundant nature is also rather unique among such, and which would be conducive to producing far more problematic texts than exist.  

:::*[Geisler and Nix said that seven out of eight variants between manuscripts of the New Testament are simply variations in spelling or other mechanical matters. Only one variant in sixty is of any significance. "Mathematically this would compute to a text that is 98.33 percent pure" (A General Introduction to the Bible [Chicago: Moody, 1968], p. 365). Sir Fredric Kenyon, another New Testament textual scholar, adds that not one disputed reading affects an essential doctrine of the Christian faith (Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts [New York: Harper & Brothers, 1941], p. 23) Good day.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 11:47, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

:::*[Geisler and Nix said that seven out of eight variants between manuscripts of the New Testament are simply variations in spelling or other mechanical matters. Only one variant in sixty is of any significance. "Mathematically this would compute to a text that is 98.33 percent pure" (A General Introduction to the Bible [Chicago: Moody, 1968], p. 365). Sir Fredric Kenyon, another New Testament textual scholar, adds that not one disputed reading affects an essential doctrine of the Christian faith (Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts [New York: Harper & Brothers, 1941], p. 23) Good day.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 11:47, 16 July 2009 (EDT)