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::I am not questioning that there is a valid objection to using proofs that require additional assumptions, for example choice.  This is a very reasonable view.  I do question whether such proofs are actually called "elementary" by mathematicians.  The case of applying complex analysis to number theory is non-elementary by either proposed definition.  I have given one example in the literature which clearly contradicts the characterization of choice as necessarily non-elementary, and can easily find more.  Can you please cite someone who uses your definition of an elementary proof?  I'm willing to believe that this usage is in circulation, but this is the first I've run into it.  --11:00, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
 
::I am not questioning that there is a valid objection to using proofs that require additional assumptions, for example choice.  This is a very reasonable view.  I do question whether such proofs are actually called "elementary" by mathematicians.  The case of applying complex analysis to number theory is non-elementary by either proposed definition.  I have given one example in the literature which clearly contradicts the characterization of choice as necessarily non-elementary, and can easily find more.  Can you please cite someone who uses your definition of an elementary proof?  I'm willing to believe that this usage is in circulation, but this is the first I've run into it.  --11:00, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
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:::A Fields Medal was given for an elementary proof a few decades ago.  Enough said?  Isolated sloppiness or denial since then is no reason to reject the underlying logic behind the value of elementary proofs.
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:::Most academic scientists today claim that man-made global warming is settled science, and that government can stop it.  Such consensus does not make that claim true or logical.
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:::Your definition of an elementary proof does not withstand scrutiny for the reasons I stated, which you did not address.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:46, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
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