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Talk:Luke 17-24 (Translated) (view source)
Revision as of 12:53, October 17, 2009
, 12:53, October 17, 2009protest-ant
:More likely than anything, this was an addition that never belong in Luke in the first place, added after the destruction of the temple to place the blame on Rome and not God. Just google the verse and you'll find tons of sources on this. 04:31, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
:More likely than anything, this was an addition that never belong in Luke in the first place, added after the destruction of the temple to place the blame on Rome and not God. Just google the verse and you'll find tons of sources on this. 04:31, 12 October 2009 (EDT)
The only basis for excluding "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do", is based upon its absence from older, and therefore supposedly better, mss, which is a questionable premise. (one side: http://www.cai.org/faq/kvj-part-2) Its exclusion on doctrinal grounds has no real basis. This does indeed fulfill the prophecy in Isa. 53:12, that he "made intercession for the transgressors", praying for them which despitefully abused Him. (cf. Lk. 6:28)
While it is true that there is no forgiveness without repentance, this is another case of the righteous asking for mercy for sinners, which has a solid Scriptural basis.
Exo 32:32 "Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written." (A desire seen in Paul: Rm. 9:3)
Num 14:19 "Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now." (cf. Gen. 50:17; Amos 7:2)
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Thus these text must also be excluded, upon the doctrinal basis which is used for Lk. 23:34.
Praying as Christ did manifests selfless love for sinners, even our enemies, which we are commanded to do, (while also reproving such, which Jesus also did). While this may not secure deliverance at the final judgment seat, it can forestall immediate judgment. God hears the cry of the unjustly afflicted, and promised to kill Israelites in response to hearing their cry. (Exo. 22:21-24) But examples are given of intercession which prevented the warranted temporal judgment upon sinners. (Exo. 32:9-14)
As for the objection that the subjects of Jesus intercession were not ignorant, this is seen as regarding the full cognizance of what they were doing by the people overall, and is confirmed by other texts:
Act 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. (and repentance is then commanded: v. 19)
1 Cor 2:7-8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: {8} Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
Finally, rather than making a new translation which is supposed to correct liberal translations, here and in its "thought for thought" form it is following the practice of liberal scholarship. While archaic words can be replaced in the KJV with modern spelling, this radical revision is unwarranted and unwise. Better to just add conservative notes to the suggested revision. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 08:53, 17 October 2009 (EDT)
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