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Talk:John 1-7 (Translated) (view source)
Revision as of 01:35, October 20, 2009
, 01:35, October 20, 2009→anothen: From above or again: new section
It is common to interpret "born of water" to mean "physical birth," meaning, unless someone has a physical birth and then a spiritual birth, they cannot enter the kingdom of God. The problem is that the construction indicates that if EITHER one is missing, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. So if either one can be missing, then the "born from water" could be the part that is missing. This would mean that physical birth is a necessity of salvation, which could be interpreted to mean that an unborn child that dies in the womb (and thus, has not been truly "born of water") is doomed to hell. It is much more likely that Jesus is using "water" as it is usually used in scripture: as a symbol of spiritual cleansing, which causes this to parallel what Jesus did for us. His death paid the penalty for our sin (water - cleansing) and His resurrection gave us new life (spirit - life). We need BOTH cleansing and new life to enter the kingdom of God; one or the other alone will not cut it.[[User:Mback|Michael Back]] 4:05, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
It is common to interpret "born of water" to mean "physical birth," meaning, unless someone has a physical birth and then a spiritual birth, they cannot enter the kingdom of God. The problem is that the construction indicates that if EITHER one is missing, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. So if either one can be missing, then the "born from water" could be the part that is missing. This would mean that physical birth is a necessity of salvation, which could be interpreted to mean that an unborn child that dies in the womb (and thus, has not been truly "born of water") is doomed to hell. It is much more likely that Jesus is using "water" as it is usually used in scripture: as a symbol of spiritual cleansing, which causes this to parallel what Jesus did for us. His death paid the penalty for our sin (water - cleansing) and His resurrection gave us new life (spirit - life). We need BOTH cleansing and new life to enter the kingdom of God; one or the other alone will not cut it.[[User:Mback|Michael Back]] 4:05, 19 October 2009 (EDT)
== anothen: From above or again ==
According to Strong's Concordance, anothen means from above; from the first, or anew. Anothen comes from ano, which means upward or on the top. According to Strong's, the only verses anothen is translated as again is at John 3:3 and 3:7, and at Galatians 4:9. In Galatians 4:9, Paul asked them why they are turning back to "weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?" (NIV Interlinear) But most of the time, when anothen is translated in the KJV, it is translated as "from above". In John 3:31, the KJV reads "He that cometh from above is above all". At John 19:11, Jesus, facing Pilate, tells Pilate that he has no power over him unless it comes "from above". At James 1:17, we are told that every gift and every good comes down "from above". And at James 3:15, we are told that earthly wisdom does not come "from above". From these examples, we can see that anothen has been translated both as "again" and as "from above". But looking back at John 3:3 and 3:7, especially in light of John 3:31 and the two verse from James, it really would appear that Jesus means for anothen to mean "from above". Nicodemus could just be dense and/or boorish. Or he could also simply not understand what Jesus is saying, as his response seems to show: "How can a man be born when he is old? Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born?" (v. 3:4/ NIV Interlinear) Nicodemus is obviously taking anothen to mean "again", while Jesus means "from above". - Danielitld