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851 bytes added ,  15:40, November 4, 2009
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:::Actually, what I meant by assumptions was nothing like what you've stated about 'monopoly capitalism' or anything like that. There are more fundamental assumptions, such as the one I referred to earlier, the assumption of a real world independent of human experience, something science cannot prove but has to assume else the method falls down. Consider for example the idea of objectivity. However, humans do not simply have unmediated access to 'reality' given how we experience it through our senses, and how our own values can influence our experiences. Science also has to recognise the idea of 'social constructs'. Of course, all language is to an extent a construct, the words we assign to phenomena were not pre-existing, and so it is not simply 'natural' how we categorise such phenomena. Take for example the concept of a 'species'. It was decided that reproductive ability was to be the basis for defining a species, yet there are numerous cases where the concept of a 'species' does not always hold up very well and has posed problems. It's when science, or any other means of producing knowledge about the world, begins to turn assumptions into facts that it poses problems. Postmodernist critique has simply emphasised the need for critical reflexivity. [[User:DWiggins|DWiggins]] 01:11, 4 November 2009 (EST)
 
:::Actually, what I meant by assumptions was nothing like what you've stated about 'monopoly capitalism' or anything like that. There are more fundamental assumptions, such as the one I referred to earlier, the assumption of a real world independent of human experience, something science cannot prove but has to assume else the method falls down. Consider for example the idea of objectivity. However, humans do not simply have unmediated access to 'reality' given how we experience it through our senses, and how our own values can influence our experiences. Science also has to recognise the idea of 'social constructs'. Of course, all language is to an extent a construct, the words we assign to phenomena were not pre-existing, and so it is not simply 'natural' how we categorise such phenomena. Take for example the concept of a 'species'. It was decided that reproductive ability was to be the basis for defining a species, yet there are numerous cases where the concept of a 'species' does not always hold up very well and has posed problems. It's when science, or any other means of producing knowledge about the world, begins to turn assumptions into facts that it poses problems. Postmodernist critique has simply emphasised the need for critical reflexivity. [[User:DWiggins|DWiggins]] 01:11, 4 November 2009 (EST)
 
::::the pomos have avoided science because they can't handle the complex information it generates, not the complex system science has for deciding what problems to study. Pomos have a standard all-purpose litany about how knowledge is produced that is not based on observation of scientists or of anyone.  Large chunks are leftover Marxism. That makes them wide open for ridicule. [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 07:30, 4 November 2009 (EST)
 
::::the pomos have avoided science because they can't handle the complex information it generates, not the complex system science has for deciding what problems to study. Pomos have a standard all-purpose litany about how knowledge is produced that is not based on observation of scientists or of anyone.  Large chunks are leftover Marxism. That makes them wide open for ridicule. [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 07:30, 4 November 2009 (EST)
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::::: In response to the claim that ''Postmodernist critique has simply emphasised the need for critical reflexivity:''  Please show me a case where a postmodern critique has had any positive effect upon a scientific discourse.  The vague notion of the "species" was not pointed out by postmodern literary theorists; it has been discussed and debated for over two centuries since Linnaeus.  Curious anomalies such as ring species weren't examined in Social Text.  And all scientists know that don't "simply have unmediated access to 'reality'".  This has been key to the scientific method since the 1600s, when Boyle et. al relied upon repetition and instruments to overcome subjective influence.  What exactly has postmodernism contributed to this discourse, or ''any'' discourse of influence? [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 10:40, 4 November 2009 (EST)
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