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<br> 12) on Medicare JFK was on the liberal side and I was wrong to say otherwise. (He failed to get anything passed, however, and was considered a weak advocate.)
<br> 12) on Medicare JFK was on the liberal side and I was wrong to say otherwise. (He failed to get anything passed, however, and was considered a weak advocate.)
<br>the death penalty was not one of his issues. Public housing was still a bipartisan issue (Taft had coauthored the basic law.) he was mildly liberal on Department of Urban Affairs. In all, a mixed domestic record. As for foreign policy, he was strongly on the hawkish side and that included the Peace Corps as an anti-Communist agency. [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 22:18, 8 November 2009 (EST)
<br>the death penalty was not one of his issues. Public housing was still a bipartisan issue (Taft had coauthored the basic law.) he was mildly liberal on Department of Urban Affairs. In all, a mixed domestic record. As for foreign policy, he was strongly on the hawkish side and that included the Peace Corps as an anti-Communist agency. [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 22:18, 8 November 2009 (EST)
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You're still missing my point on several issues here, and either debating positions that I don't hold or creating strawmen.\
<br>1.) I am NOT suggesting that JFK didn't escalate Vietnam. He absolutely did escalate the conflict, and as you said, this clearly fits in the conservative category. As I mentioned in one of my first comments, Kennedy was a foreign policy hawk for most of his career. What I was trying to point out was that, post-Bay of Pigs/in his final year, Kennedy began to grow warier of our Vietnam commitment. At the very most, he wanted to pull out; at the very least, he was reconsidering. "Fog of War" evidences this, the audio tape of Johnson evidences this, and the AP link I provided re: the Kennedy tapes also evidences this. His National Security Memorandum withdrawing 1,000 personnel from active duty is even MORE proof of this. A discussion of Kennedy's foreign policy should account for the fact that he was a hawkish conservative for most of his life, but by his final year, was starting to move in a more dovish, liberal direction. Read his speech at American University re: World Peace.
<br>4.) I am NOT suggesting that the "liberal" that John F. Kennedy was describing equals the "liberal" of today. Of course it doesn't; as I have already stated numerous times, Kennedy would likely be a moderate or conservative Democrat today. The reason I mentioned this Kennedy quote is NOT to suggest that he would be a liberal of today's standards; I mentioned it because the article states that Kennedy "refused to call himself a liberal." This quote of his--where he quite literally calls himself a liberal--firmly proves otherwise.
<br>7.) I am not saying that John F. Kennedy disagreed with the Catholic line. I am not saying he held liberal positions on abortion or gay rights. What I am saying is this: to use the issues of abortion and gay rights to judge whether John F. Kennedy--a 1960s politician--is a liberal is anachronistic, misleading, and inaccurate. Abortion and gay rights were not political issues in the early-1960s, for one. Secondly, MOST politicians on both sides of the aisle held anti-abortion positions. It wasn't until the late-60s and early-70s that abortion even became an issue. Thirdly, gay rights was not even ''discussed'' in the 1960s; it didn't even make a Democratic party platform until 1976. Fourthly, Kennedy didn't speak publicly on any of these issues anyway. In summation: to oppose abortion and oppose gay rights in the early 60s was a very mainstream political position. This does not make Kennedy conservative. It places him well within the mainstream of the Democratic party in the early 1960s. As I am sure you will agree, America has become more liberal over the last 45 years. To judge a 1960 politician by what's considered liberal today isn't historically accurate.
<br>10.) Yes, JFK's position is unclear. I am not debating what JFK's position here was. The reason I mentioned this is in reference to the statement in the article that the Kennedys "represented the conservative wing of the Democratic party." For Joseph Kennedy to take liberal stances such as this one suggests that the Kennedys were not conservative stalwarts.
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As for your other arguments:
<br>2.) I've read plenty, and I've not seen the Nuclear Test Ban treaty described as "conservative." I've seen it described as liberal plenty of times, and I've also read it described as being a middle-of-the-road, pragmatic measure. But never "conservative." The burden of proof is on you, sir; you are the one making the assertions.
<br>5.) Again, you are judging the 60s milieu by present-day ideological standards. To do and say the things JFK did with regards to civil rights--in particular in his June 11 speech--was most definitely a liberal move by 1963 standards.
<br>9.) As you said, he did call for retraining and economic growth. As for him "opposing" the WPA-CCC-FERA, all of those organizations were disbanded by 1948, when Kennedy first became active in politics. Again, a strawman. [[User:ChuckR|ChuckR]] 00:26, 9 November 2009 (EST)