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You might want to talk with Michael Back about this, as well.  "As for the logos, John was using a concept the Greeks had . . to help the Greeks better understand who and what Jesus was," he wrote.  This definitely sounds like its a "cultural product", especially since Mr Back "highly doubts" that the term logos - and the Greek ideas related to it - is "EXACTLY who Jesus is".  (Emphasis in the original.)  When asked by the scribe which is the greatest commandment, Jesus responded that the Shema Yisrael is.  But then he added:  "The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself." (Mark 12:29-31)  These two great commandments are Jewish, from Deuteronomy and Leviticus.  Rabbi Hillel, who lived at same time as Jesus, told the man hopping about on one leg that the Torah can be reduced to this:  What is hateful to you, don't do to another.  So we can see that Jesus' words were part and parcel of the cultural milieu of his time.  They, and the gospel they are in, were cultural products.  And now these ancient cultural products are part and parcel of our culture.  They don't require televisions, dinosaurs or the Second Law of Thermodynamics for further explication.  Like the Socratic "Know thyself", they stand on their own, as relevant today as they were 2,000 years ago or more. - Danielitld     

You might want to talk with Michael Back about this, as well.  "As for the logos, John was using a concept the Greeks had . . to help the Greeks better understand who and what Jesus was," he wrote.  This definitely sounds like its a "cultural product", especially since Mr Back "highly doubts" that the term logos - and the Greek ideas related to it - is "EXACTLY who Jesus is".  (Emphasis in the original.)  When asked by the scribe which is the greatest commandment, Jesus responded that the Shema Yisrael is.  But then he added:  "The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself." (Mark 12:29-31)  These two great commandments are Jewish, from Deuteronomy and Leviticus.  Rabbi Hillel, who lived at same time as Jesus, told the man hopping about on one leg that the Torah can be reduced to this:  What is hateful to you, don't do to another.  So we can see that Jesus' words were part and parcel of the cultural milieu of his time.  They, and the gospel they are in, were cultural products.  And now these ancient cultural products are part and parcel of our culture.  They don't require televisions, dinosaurs or the Second Law of Thermodynamics for further explication.  Like the Socratic "Know thyself", they stand on their own, as relevant today as they were 2,000 years ago or more. - Danielitld     

:Daniel, as a favor, please in the future try to be concise rather than resorting to rants.  I'm not sure why you keep bringing up televisions, but the matter is extremely simple.  The Bible is '''God's''' word.  It is not, as you claim, a "cultural product."  The objections many of those around Jesus were cultural, but his responses transcended culture, and included messages which were entirely new in human history.  What I find most disturbing is that you seem to entirely ignore, or even ''deny'' the divine origin of the Bible.  How can you possibly claim that it is God's inspired word when you deride it as a "cultural product" and that God was influenced by ancient cultures?  Thanks to what we have learned of God's creation in the intervening millenia, we are more than ever able to discover the incredible depth, both logical and, yes, scientific, of God's word.  Why are you so set on denying the mere possibility that the Bible mentioned dinosaurs? I've never claimed that it's true, nor would I seek to prove it, but I'm willing to allow for the possibility, and am amazed by the foresight entailed. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 16:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

:Daniel, as a favor, please in the future try to be concise rather than resorting to rants.  I'm not sure why you keep bringing up televisions, but the matter is extremely simple.  The Bible is '''God's''' word.  It is not, as you claim, a "cultural product."  The objections many of those around Jesus were cultural, but his responses transcended culture, and included messages which were entirely new in human history.  What I find most disturbing is that you seem to entirely ignore, or even ''deny'' the divine origin of the Bible.  How can you possibly claim that it is God's inspired word when you deride it as a "cultural product" and that God was influenced by ancient cultures?  Thanks to what we have learned of God's creation in the intervening millenia, we are more than ever able to discover the incredible depth, both logical and, yes, scientific, of God's word.  Why are you so set on denying the mere possibility that the Bible mentioned dinosaurs? I've never claimed that it's true, nor would I seek to prove it, but I'm willing to allow for the possibility, and am amazed by the foresight entailed. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 16:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)