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:You make good points.  Thank you.  I have an open mind about this, and think "reckoning" might be improved.  But "woe to you" or "alas to you"?  Those strike me as very archaic and ambiguous.  Is it a curse?  No, I don't think that is the original intent.  People just don't talk that way anymore, and a listener to those phrases does not understand the original intent.  Also, as to "you all," that's too colloquial for a Bible translation, don't you think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:33, 16 January 2010 (EST)

:You make good points.  Thank you.  I have an open mind about this, and think "reckoning" might be improved.  But "woe to you" or "alas to you"?  Those strike me as very archaic and ambiguous.  Is it a curse?  No, I don't think that is the original intent.  People just don't talk that way anymore, and a listener to those phrases does not understand the original intent.  Also, as to "you all," that's too colloquial for a Bible translation, don't you think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:33, 16 January 2010 (EST)

::Thanks for your thoughts, Mr. Schlafly. I also don't think it's a curse, but "reckoning" does refer to a judgment or curse. ''Ouai'' is an interjection, literally "woe!" as in "woe is me" or "woe unto you" or "alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well." I guess we just see the power of the idiom differently. I can't think of anything powerful that retains the meaning of ''ouai'' that I'm familiar with but I am trying and my mind is open to capturing a more contemporary meaning of "woe." One suggestion I would make is that the sense of ''ouai'' doesn't seem judgmental, as "reckoning" would imply that there will be a reckoning upon you (and there's no indication that the interjection is present progressive or gerundial), but purely interjectory along the lines of "poor you." As for the "you all," say no more. That was a carry-over from my internal dialog about plural pronouns like ὑμῖν when I read them because English has no plural form of "you" like Greek or Romance languages do. Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting "woe to you all" is appropriate. :-) Sorry about being unclear. By the way, the only reason I think this matters is that ''ouai'' or something similar might appear 50 or more times in the New Testament and its use is consistently translated as "woe" or "alas" from the Greek in the KJV. Catholics might find the similar Douay rendering of ''vae vobis''' as "woe unto you" familiar. [[User:Cambrian|Cambrian]] 15:12, 16 January 2010 (EST)

::Thanks for your thoughts, Mr. Schlafly. I also don't think it's a curse, but "reckoning" does refer to a judgment or curse. ''Ouai'' is an interjection, literally "woe!" as in "woe is me" or "woe unto you" or "alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well." I guess we just see the power of the idiom differently. I can't think of anything powerful that retains the meaning of ''ouai'' that I'm familiar with but I am trying and my mind is open to capturing a more contemporary meaning of "woe." One suggestion I would make is that the sense of ''ouai'' doesn't seem judgmental, as "reckoning" would imply that there will be a reckoning upon you (and there's no indication that the interjection is present progressive or gerundial), but purely interjectory along the lines of "poor you." As for the "you all," say no more. That was a carry-over from my internal dialog about plural pronouns like ὑμῖν when I read them because English has no plural form of "you" like Greek or Romance languages do. Don't worry, I wasn't suggesting "woe to you all" is appropriate. :-) Sorry about being unclear. By the way, the only reason I think this matters is that ''ouai'' or something similar might appear 50 or more times in the New Testament and its use is consistently translated as "woe" or "alas" from the Greek in the KJV. Catholics might find the similar Douay rendering of ''vae vobis''' as "woe unto you" familiar. [[User:Cambrian|Cambrian]] 15:12, 16 January 2010 (EST)