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Talk:John 15-21 (Translated) (view source)
Revision as of 17:46, March 17, 2010
, 17:46, March 17, 2010→Reversion explained
:::::I would agree that Jesus spoke Greek. John 12:27, Greeks asked to see Jesus and that message was relayed by I think Philip. The scripture said his soul was troubled "What shall I say?". This passage doesn't mean he was troubled by communicating with the Greek's. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 21:20, 27 February 2010 (EST)
:::::I would agree that Jesus spoke Greek. John 12:27, Greeks asked to see Jesus and that message was relayed by I think Philip. The scripture said his soul was troubled "What shall I say?". This passage doesn't mean he was troubled by communicating with the Greek's. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 21:20, 27 February 2010 (EST)
::::::I agree that Jesus spoke Greek. The evidence for this is overwhelming. First, His use of the word "hypocrite," which does not appear to have an exact equivalent in first century Aramaic, and was not in common usage in Jewish culture at the time. The very idea of the "hupocrite" comes from the Greek culture, and actually meant "actor" during the first century. So Jesus was actually borrowing an idea from Greek/Roman culture, and calling the Pharisees "actors" (accusing them of "playing a role, not being sincere," which would indicate that, not only did Jesus speak Greek, He was aware of Gentile culture). Second, the switch back and forth between certain words within the gospels themselves (such as the Aramaic "rabbi" and the Greek "didaskalos") give strong support for the idea that Jesus Himself switched back and forth between Greek and Aramaic, and often spoke in Greek when addressing people in public. This would fit with what we know from history of the Jewish nation. One of the motivations behind the creation of the Septuagint by Jewish scholars several generations before Jesus was because the Jewish people could speak and read Greek, but could no longer read pure Hebrew. Further, more than 90 percent of the OT quotations in the NT made by Jewish writers are directly, word for word, from the Septuagint. Only about 10 percent are direct translations of the Hebrew (which, with Greek being so free form in terms of word order, is easy to spot). Third, it is highly unlikely that the uneducated fishermen who followed Jesus could read and write proper Greek (such as John and Peter), when the "teacher" they followed could not. Fourth, Jesus is actually recorded interacting directly with Gentiles on several occasions, with no translation necessary. Finally, there are several times in which the exact words Jesus spoke in Aramaic are recorded, and are then translated. On at least one of these occasions (on the cross), many of the people standing around did not understand what He was saying. That did NOT occur during any of His normal conversations or teachings, again, strongly indicating that Jesus switched freely back and forth between Greek and Aramaic depending on the situation and the audience.
::::::As for the whole "right versus left" = "conservative versus liberal" in the Bible . . . aside from the fact that Jesus simply refused to let Himself be used by or drawn into political agendas (always redirecting people BACK to focusing on serving God), I simply do not believe that Jesus was then going to make several HIDDEN political statements that COULD not be fully understood by ANY believers during the first 1800 or 1900 years of Christianity, and could only be properly decoded by English speaking Americans (or French speaking Europeans) almost two THOUSAND years later. That simply does not fit. The teachings of scripture are UNIVERSAL, they transcend culture and era, and Jesus taught ABSOLUTE Truth, NOT American political views. Anything that is true of the political "Conservative" view is because WE line up with God's position, NOT because He agrees with ours. In Joshua 5:13, when Joshua encountered the the commander of the Lord's armies, Joshua asked him: "Are you for us or for our enemies." Despite the fact that Israel was OBEYING God and doing the will of God, the answer was "neither." God does not "join" our positions, we join HIS. The question is NOT whether or not He is with us, the question is whether or not we are with HIM. Speaking as a life long Conservative, I can say with no hesitation that God is NOT a right wing conservative (it is NOT a conservative political position that one MUST be a follower of Jesus to be a conservative, as there are very prominent, NON-Christian JEWISH conservatives in America - and that IS the central message of the Bible). God is not a member of OUR coalition. If we are correct, if we proclaim Truth, it is because we have joined HIS side, NOT because He has joined ours. If there is some deeper meaning to be attributed to His use of "right," it needs to be drawn from how the words were used, and what their meanings were, during the first century, NOT how a tiny group of believers (historically speaking) would use those words two thousand years later in modern American political culture.--[[User:MBack|MBack]] 13:46, 17 March 2010 (EDT)