Changes

::::I see an inconsistency in both the "liberal" and "conservative" views on this issue. Not only does it not make sense to support abortion and oppose the death penalty (especially in light of what you've mentioned about innocence and guilt), but it also makes little sense to spend such a great deal of effort supporting the idea of a "right to life" and a "culture of life" if you also advocate establishing a precedent wherein execution is superior to forgiveness and rehabilitation.  

::::I see an inconsistency in both the "liberal" and "conservative" views on this issue. Not only does it not make sense to support abortion and oppose the death penalty (especially in light of what you've mentioned about innocence and guilt), but it also makes little sense to spend such a great deal of effort supporting the idea of a "right to life" and a "culture of life" if you also advocate establishing a precedent wherein execution is superior to forgiveness and rehabilitation.  

::::In the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, "cases of absolute necessity for suppression [execution] of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent."<ref>http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/fifth.html</ref> --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 21:08, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

::::In the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, "cases of absolute necessity for suppression [execution] of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.[http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/fifth.html] --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 21:08, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::Opposition to the death penalty is a way to try to deny [[Hell]].  But there's no denying it, as any rational system of justice requires both.  Death penalty on earth is mild punishment compared to the very real Hell described by Jesus.  Indeed, Jesus emphasized Hell more than Heaven.

:::::Opposition to the death penalty is a way to try to deny [[Hell]].  But there's no denying it, as any rational system of justice requires both.  Death penalty on earth is mild punishment compared to the very real Hell described by Jesus.  Indeed, Jesus emphasized Hell more than Heaven.

:::::I don't know why you quote a catechism.  I doubt you even accept its basic teachings.  The Catholic Church is not Quaker, and it is not pacifist.  It has always accepted the death penalty and the justifications for war, and always will.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:10, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::I don't know why you quote a catechism.  I doubt you even accept its basic teachings.  The Catholic Church is not Quaker, and it is not pacifist.  It has always accepted the death penalty and the justifications for war, and always will.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:10, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

::::::I quote a catechism to point out that my views are not limited to "materialists" and "utilitarians." Your personal ideas on the matter don't change the fact that the Catholic Church (by papal encyclical, and not by "popular opinion") has expressed that it stands for "near total opposition to the death penalty."<ref>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/angel/procon/popestate.html</ref>

::::::I quote a catechism to point out that my views are not limited to "materialists" and "utilitarians." Your personal ideas on the matter don't change the fact that the Catholic Church (by papal encyclical, and not by "popular opinion") has expressed that it stands for "near total opposition to the death penalty."[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/angel/procon/popestate.html]

::::::I would be happy to discuss my religious and political views in greater detail if you feel that they undermine my ability to contribute to this project in a meaningful way. --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 14:23, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

::::::I would be happy to discuss my religious and political views in greater detail if you feel that they undermine my ability to contribute to this project in a meaningful way. --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 14:23, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::::::: I doubt that was the reason, although I have an open mind about it.  The reason of "setting an example" seems to be a product of the modern media, when people are obsessed with publicity.  There was no publicity in the Middle Ages.  It seems to me that religious people probably made their careful decision out of motivation of expunging evil, and may have even explained it in those terms.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:26, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::::::: I doubt that was the reason, although I have an open mind about it.  The reason of "setting an example" seems to be a product of the modern media, when people are obsessed with publicity.  There was no publicity in the Middle Ages.  It seems to me that religious people probably made their careful decision out of motivation of expunging evil, and may have even explained it in those terms.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:26, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

::::::::::: You seem to be correct about the notion of using execution and cremation as a way of "expunging evil." According to Catholic Encyclopedia (please alert me if you deem it too liberal a source), "[t]he nations of modern Europe, as they gradually developed, seemed to have agreed upon the necessity of extirpating all influences and agencies which tended to pervert the faith of the people, or which seemed to them to betray the potency of evil spirits. Therefore, the laws of all these nations provided for the destruction of contumacious unbelievers, teachers of heresy, witches, and sorcerers, by fire." <ref>http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12565a.htm</ref> --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 17:03, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

::::::::::: You seem to be correct about the notion of using execution and cremation as a way of "expunging evil." According to Catholic Encyclopedia (please alert me if you deem it too liberal a source), "[t]he nations of modern Europe, as they gradually developed, seemed to have agreed upon the necessity of extirpating all influences and agencies which tended to pervert the faith of the people, or which seemed to them to betray the potency of evil spirits. Therefore, the laws of all these nations provided for the destruction of contumacious unbelievers, teachers of heresy, witches, and sorcerers, by fire." [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12565a.htm] --[[User:Economist|Economist]] 17:03, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Superb find!  You might want to insert that into the [[death penalty]] entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:06, 28 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::::::::: Superb find!  You might want to insert that into the [[death penalty]] entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:06, 28 May 2009 (EDT)