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Talk:Counterexamples to Relativity (view source)
Revision as of 22:26, August 15, 2010
, 22:26, August 15, 2010→Inability of theory to lead to other insights?
::::: NotesTH, you list some unproven dead ends like never-observed "Gravitation Waves," but fail to identify any verified insight. Indeed, the length of your list highlights its lack of a quality insight.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:38, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
::::: NotesTH, you list some unproven dead ends like never-observed "Gravitation Waves," but fail to identify any verified insight. Indeed, the length of your list highlights its lack of a quality insight.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:38, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::: Gravitational waves have not been directly observed, no, but there is significant indirect evidence. Most commonly cited is the [http://www.conservapedia.com/PSR_B1913_16 | Hulse-Taylor binary]. In the linked article it is claimed that a "0.2%" demonstrates the failing of relativity. On the contrary, the fact that a theoretical model for a binary star system could predict a gravitational wave emission that matches observations so extremely closely is extraordinary. The supposed correction term for "galactic acceleration" exists because the initial model is not perfect and nor was it ever meant to be. A 0.2% error is a fantastically small difference and demonstrates that GR provides an extremely accurate and verified prediction for the observed decay of a binary system due to emission of gravitational waves. The authors of the quoted paper state "Accuracy of the test for gravitational radiation damping is now dominated by the uncertainty in the galactic acceleration term. Work now underway should lead to improved accuracy of the pulsar proper motion, and the Sun’s galactocentric distance may be better known in the future. However, we see little prospect for a significant improvement in knowledge of the pulsar distance. Consequently, it seems unlikely that this test of relativistic gravity will be improved significantly in the foreseeable future" - that's simply a statement to the effect that there were some unknown parameters not included in the initial model but nowhere near enough to even remotely claim that the model is being tweaked to fit the theory, not for a 0.2% difference.
:::::: You also seem to have neglected the other points. Rather than trying to talk about everything, it would take far too long in one sitting, I'll focus on the particle side of things. I've already stated that modern particle accelerators take into account relativistic effects - e.g. particle energies (using the relativistic energy equation: <math> E^2 = m^2 c^4 + p^2 c^2 </math>, synchotron radiation [http://www.lhc-closer.es/php/index.php?i=1&s=4&p=12&e=0 | Synchotron at the LHC], particle lifetimes and so on. All of these require calculations from relativity that have been experimentally measured and verified. For instance all the predicted particle lifetimes and decay rates would require quantum field theories (which require relativity as a relativistic quantum theory) to predict the expected values which can then be matched to observations. We find that they are an extremely good fit to observations. Another example of such a calculation would be in predicting the [http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/9810512 | magnetic moments] of particles - theory matches observations extraordinarily well.
:::::: As another point, just for a further example (could keep going...) we could look at neutron stars or pulsars as objects that are intrinsically relativistic. We can use observations of millisecond pulsars and, for example, compare models of synchrotron radiation (relativistic) to the observations. We find that the relativistic predictions are again in good agreement. Relativity has led to the development of many astrophysical phenomena which are intrinsically relativistic. Without the framework and foundations of relativity such insight would be impossible. The fundamental concepts introduced by relativity are absolutely essential in many, many branches of modern day science with many of the intrinsic relativistic effects being tested to a vast degree. No one claims that GR is the complete theory, it's treated as an effective field theory valid in some low energy limit, but the revolutionary concepts introduced by relativity have led to irrefutable developments in many areas of science. - 15th August 2010 [User:NotesTH | NotesTH]
== "from the muons' point of view, the Earth would have to be rushing in all directions to meet them"? ==
== "from the muons' point of view, the Earth would have to be rushing in all directions to meet them"? ==