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Talk:John 1-7 (Translated) (view source)
Revision as of 16:49, April 17, 2011
, 16:49, April 17, 2011→Qui tacet, consentire videtur: @Aschlafly
: The time is precise: at the "seventh hour," which is measured from sunrise. There is no imprecision there; it is not "about 1pm."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:01, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
: The time is precise: at the "seventh hour," which is measured from sunrise. There is no imprecision there; it is not "about 1pm."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:01, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
:::Just repeating your statement while ignoring everything which was said above does not bolster your position. We both agree that the text can be translated as ''at the seventh hour'', but we disagree on the on the meaning of this phrase. May I summarize our dialogue so far (at least as I see it):
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|colspan="2"|'''Aschlafly:''' ''The time is precise: at the "seventh hour," which is measured from sunrise. There is no imprecision there; it is not "about 1pm."''
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*Such a precision needs a precision in time-keeping which just didn't exist in the first century A.D.
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|colspan="2"|'''AugustO:''' ''"at the seventh hour" is by itself an imprecise statement: it means sometimes during the time from the beginning of the seventh hour and the end of the seventh hour''
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*Seneca's statement on time measurement in Rome in the first century A.D.: ''it is impossible at Rome to be sure of the exact hour; and it is easier to get the philosophers to agree among themselves than the clocks''
*Jérome Carcôpino's description of time keeping in the [[Roman Empire]]: ''While our hours each comprise a uniform sixty minutes of sixty seconds each, and each hour is definitely separated from the succeeding by the fugitive moment at which it strikes, the lack of division inside the Roman hour meant that each of them stretched over the whole interval of time between the preceding hour and the hour which followed; and this hour interval instead of being of fixed duration was perpetually elastic, now longer, now shorter, from one end of the year to the other, and on any given day the duration of the day hours was opposed to the length of the night hours. ''
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:::I hope you find the time to substantiate your statement - and perhaps to answer to the questions I have repeatedly asked, namely:
:::#(John 4:52) Which answer would you give to a kid in Sunday School who asks: ''How did the servants knew that it was 1 o'clock?''
:::#(John 4:46-54) You wrote: ''The instantaneous healing is central to the purpose of the event.'' and ''the point of the story is that it happened at the same moment''. How so? Why had the healing to be spontaneous, when the creation of the world took six days?
:::#(Matthew 27:51) At [[Bible Translation Issues]], no. 17, you wrote: ''The word "behold" appears frequently in the KJV but lacks a modern equivalent. Is there a strategy for this dealing with this concept? Possibilities include "rejoice", "observe", "listen", "note that", and ignoring it altogether (which modern versions often do). '' Here, you omit the nuance ''at the moment'' which you used in Matthew 27:51. I checked a couple of dictionaries and failed to find ''at the moment'' as a translation of ἰδού. Where did you find it?
:::#(Matthew 27:51) The ''New International Version'' starts the verse with ''At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn..'', but this ''at that moment'' seems to be a translation of the leading καὶ (in fact of the string of καὶ-καὶ-καὶ), while ἰδού is dropped from the sentence altogether - as you observed rightly in [[Bible Translation Issues]].
:::#Isn't it a little bit unsettling that this crucial ''nuance'' of ἰδού is used in CBP's translation for the first and only time in Matthew 27:51, a verse which is used later on in [[Counterexamples to Relativity]]?
:::[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 12:49, 17 April 2011 (EDT)