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Conservapedia talk:Is the Bible Inerrant? (view source)
Revision as of 09:57, April 9, 2007
, 09:57, April 9, 2007→What's this article trying to achieve?
:Thanks for sharing that tautology -- "the bible says this, so it must be true" -- and I agree that it is very troubling when arguments of this sort are presented: validation based on an original source is hardly very compelling. Basic problem is that these are written after Paul had established that Jesus was the "anointed one" -- note that the Greek Khristos is applied to both Jesus and David (among others), and the "anointed one" in Judaism ''is'' a son of man who becomes king ( a la David). [[User:NousEpirrhytos|NousEpirrhytos]] 14:41, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
:Thanks for sharing that tautology -- "the bible says this, so it must be true" -- and I agree that it is very troubling when arguments of this sort are presented: validation based on an original source is hardly very compelling. Basic problem is that these are written after Paul had established that Jesus was the "anointed one" -- note that the Greek Khristos is applied to both Jesus and David (among others), and the "anointed one" in Judaism ''is'' a son of man who becomes king ( a la David). [[User:NousEpirrhytos|NousEpirrhytos]] 14:41, 8 April 2007 (EDT)
::I'm not sure what you are referring to with the tautology reference, because nobody said those precise words. But if you are referring to me, I don't believe that I said anything that amounts to that. If you think otherwise, please quote or clearly point to the precise thing I did say. However, your quote, as it stands, is not actually a tautology anyway. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:40, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
::I'm not sure what you are referring to with the tautology reference, because nobody said those precise words. But if you are referring to me, I don't believe that I said anything that amounts to that. If you think otherwise, please quote or clearly point to the precise thing I did say. However, your quote, as it stands, is not actually a tautology anyway. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:40, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
1. 'Son of God' does ''not'' mean 'God'. All Israelites were 'sons of God' ''by definition''. That's why David claims the same title at Psalm 2:7 (at the same time making it clear that it's ''by adoption''), and why Jesus was able to teach his followers to pray 'Our Father...'
2. 'The Messiah, the Son of God' seems to have been a pre-existing title at the time (cf Schonfield): it referred to the 'Son of God' (i.e. the archetypal Israelite) who was to come - the particular 'son of man' (''bar enash'' or, in Hebrew, ''ben adam'', which ''still'' means 'man' even today) referred to by the book of Daniel.
4. In your quote from the beginning of John, the 'and the Word was God' bit should almost certainly read 'and the Word was divine'. Otherwise it simply doesn't make sense in terms of the previous sentence, let alone in terms of the familiar Pharisaic doctrine of the ''logos'' (i.e. the Adam Kadmon, or man-thought-in-the-mind-of-God) that is reflected not only in the text, but in the traditional Jewish wedding service ('last in creation, first in thought').
5. Not only does the Koran not say that Jesus was God, it specifically denies that Jesus was even his son (i.e. in the normal sense of the word). So, since the Koran claims repeatedly to be the word of God, whereas the Bible doesn't claim to be (it can't have done, since it didn't exist as a book for the claim to be made at the time when it was written), it's clearly the Koran that should be believed, if anything...
6. You have told us what Paul thought about it and what John thought about it, but I asked you what ''Jesus'' thought about it. So far, you haven't told us a single word about that. Why are you being so evasive? ''Please give us convincing evidence from the Bible that Jesus thought he was God (let alone 'the Creator')''. Just the simple references will do: no need to write a novel about it. --[[User:Petrus|Petrus]] 05:57, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
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== Protected debate page? ==