Changes

::::::If that statement were true, then why are the top achievers on difficult math contests (such as the Putnam exam) more than 90% male, and less than 10% female?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:32, 26 February 2012 (EST)\

::::::If that statement were true, then why are the top achievers on difficult math contests (such as the Putnam exam) more than 90% male, and less than 10% female?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:32, 26 February 2012 (EST)\

::::::: I can't vouch for this on a national level, but when I took the Putnam at UConn last year, about 90% of the participants were male. If that's true at a national level (and I don't know if it is) then it stands to reason. [[User:Gregkochuconn|Gregkochuconn]] 21:28, 26 February 2012 (EST)

::::::: I can't vouch for this on a national level, but when I took the Putnam at UConn last year, about 90% of the participants were male. If that's true at a national level (and I don't know if it is) then it stands to reason. [[User:Gregkochuconn|Gregkochuconn]] 21:28, 26 February 2012 (EST)

:::::I think the problem is a lack of imprecision when using words like "same" or "equal". In mathematics such terms have very precisely defined meanings and so to say that all groups of order three are the same or are equal (or, equivalently, to say that "there is only one group of order 3") is not to say that all such groups are the same in all respects (obviously, this isn't true or they would all have the same name/description and we wouldn't even doubt there were more than one such group), but instead only says that all such groups behave similarly in all the ways that are (currently) important to mathematicians. When dealing with real world situations like mathematical aptitude and gender, it's much easier to speak imprecisely (either mistakenly or maliciously) and thus much more plausible that some suggested equivalences are the result of liberal bias and not some underlying similarities. I just don't see how that is possible, however, in the realm of mathematics, at least with respect to homomorphisms.  

:::::I think the problem is a lack of imprecision when using words like "same" or "equal". In mathematics such terms have very precisely defined meanings and so to say that all groups of order three are the same or are equal (or, equivalently, to say that "there is only one group of order 3") is not to say that all such groups are the same in all respects (obviously, this isn't true or they would all have the same name/description and we wouldn't even doubt there were more than one such group), but instead only says that all such groups behave similarly in all the ways that are (currently) important to mathematicians. When dealing with real world situations like mathematical aptitude and gender, it's much easier to speak imprecisely (either mistakenly or maliciously) and thus much more plausible that some suggested equivalences are the result of liberal bias and not some underlying similarities. I just don't see how that is possible, however, in the realm of mathematics, at least with respect to homomorphisms.  

:::::This is getting a bit off topic, but if Andy and you are right and (liberal?) universities improperly equate the aptitude of men and women (by analogy, posit a homomorphism between men and women), we shouldn't conclude that the positing of all equivalences is liberal bias (by analogy, that homomorphisms are the result of liberal bias), but instead should conclude that universities are mistaken and that no such equivalence exists in this case (by analogy, there is no homomorphism between a group of order 3 and a group of order 4, say).--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 17:01, 26 February 2012 (EST)

:::::This is getting a bit off topic, but if Andy and you are right and (liberal?) universities improperly equate the aptitude of men and women (by analogy, posit a homomorphism between men and women), we shouldn't conclude that the positing of all equivalences is liberal bias (by analogy, that homomorphisms are the result of liberal bias), but instead should conclude that universities are mistaken and that no such equivalence exists in this case (by analogy, there is no homomorphism between a group of order 3 and a group of order 4, say).--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 17:01, 26 February 2012 (EST)

:::::Again though, the university claims more than "these sets have similar group structures on them," and goes so far as to insist that there is no reason to distinguish between them.  [[User:Bogart12|Bogart12]]

:::::Again though, the university claims more than "these sets have similar group structures on them," and goes so far as to insist that there is no reason to distinguish between them.  [[User:Bogart12|Bogart12]]

::::::Okay, so then universities are wrong to equate men and women in this way. What does that have to do with homomorphisms? Are we still disagreeing whether they serve a legitimate mathematical purpose or are instead the product of improper liberal bias?--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 21:54, 26 February 2012 (EST)

::::::Okay, so then universities are wrong to equate men and women in this way. What does that have to do with homomorphisms? Are we still disagreeing whether they serve a legitimate mathematical purpose or are instead the product of improper liberal bias?--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 21:54, 26 February 2012 (EST)

== Examples of Liberal Math ==

== Examples of Liberal Math  

The purported proof of [[Fermat's Last Theorem]] would be an example of liberal math.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:48, 26 February 2012 (EST)

The purported proof of [[Fermat's Last Theorem]] would be an example of liberal math.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:48, 26 February 2012 (EST)