Talk:Kissing

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Can this be unlocked? The administrator who locked it seems to be inactive now(?). I just started composing an article for this without realising there was a lock against creation. I assume the block was because of the sexual aspect of kissing. However, there are many facets to the subject, so I don't think it's helpful to just keep it blank. Sideways 19:32, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

You can paste your article text below. If an admin likes it, he'll move it to the article page. --Ed Poor Talk 19:50, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
"What facets?" Well, kissing babies, for one. Both by politicians and their close relatives. Human 20:07, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Proposed text

Kissing is the action of pressing one's lips against something or someone as a sign of affection.

The meaning of a kiss can vary considerably. Kissing on the mouth is a private and intimate expression of love and desire by courting or married couples. Kissing somebody on the cheek or forehead is a sign of affection, for example between family members. In some formal settings, gentlemen are expected to kiss the hand of a lady when introduced. Kissing a ring on the hand of a bishop or royal is a sign of respect or devotion. There is a longstanding Roman Catholic tradition of kissing the Pope's ring in this way.

People sometimes kiss inanimate objects such as their own possessions as an eccentric display of affection or gratitude to them. Prostrating oneself and kissing the ground can be an expression of relief shown by those returning to their homeland after a long absence. Pope John Paul II was noted for kissing the ground on arrival at various airports on his Papal visits.

Kissing has been practiced throughout human history, in virtually all cultures of the world. Humans are believed to be the only creatures that kiss, although mouth contact is observed among the courtship rituals of some mammals and birds, including pigeons.

Kissing people of the same sex is sometimes considered taboo because of its association with homosexuality. However, in many cultures, including France, Italy, Russia, Egypt and some other countries, it is common to greet friends of either sex with a kiss - usually on the cheek - as a sign of platonic friendship. This was also customary in Biblical times, when Judas Iscariot used a kiss as the signal to have Jesus arrested.

Sideways 20:20, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Comments

Wow, nice succinct overview! One minor quibble - using the phrase "lovers and married couples". Can you think of a way around the word "lovers"? I'm trying to come up with one, but the best I have so far is the horribly clumsy "pre-married"! Oh, and re: "object kissing", would it be worth mentioning the Godfather thing of kissing his ring? And don't people kiss the Pope's ring as a token of respect? And lastly... is not prostrating oneself and kissing the ground of one's homeland a common expression of those who have been under forced absence for a time? Human 20:27, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
Thank you. I've tweaked it slightly - see above. Make any further changes you think would improve it. Let's hope it gets copied to the article page. Sideways 20:57, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

The pretense that it's never erotic is an obstacle for inclusion.

So is the insinuation that there's an irrational taboo about men, which seems to justify homosexuality. Please write about something else. --Ed Poor Talk 05:35, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

I have not pretended that kissing is never erotic. See first paragraph: "Kissing on the mouth is a private and intimate expression of love and desire by courting or married couples". Change this to "sexual desire" or "erotic desire" if you think that it really needs to be spelled out. I could certainly write more on the subject of kissing as erotic, but witheld from doing so on the basis that this is intended to be a family-friendly encyclopedia.
I have endeavoured to discuss that kissing is not always erotic. This ties in with the subject of same-sex kissing. I have stated that this can be homosexual, and is taboo in many societies because of this. Most people would agree that this is true and this taboo does exist. I have made no comment or insinuation whether this is rational or irrational.
I have mentioned that kissing (including same-sex kissing) is common in some cultures (both contemporary and historical) as a platonic sign of friendship, blessing or respect. This is also indisputably true, and I think that it should be mentioned. Whatever our opinions on same-sex kissing within our own society, we must recognise that it has not always necessarily been sexual, in order not to misinterpret biblical passages or historical accounts which relate to one man kissing another in a non-sexual context. Sideways 09:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Forget same-sex, family members kiss each other (usually on the cheek, but sometimes more) just for hello/goodbye. Ed's right, kissing is usually erotic, so I can definitely understand if the majority of kissing would be non-family-friendly, but non-erotic kissing (especially on the cheek) isn't uncommon. --Interiot 13:03, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

  • If Interiot says it's an okay topic, he's probably right. He's usually right about most things. I defer to his editorial leadership on this one. --Ed Poor Talk 20:19, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
I dunno about the "usually" thing. Not to get too graphic, but the dividing line might be open vs. closed mouth kissing - it's easy enough for this article to be about the former. Human 20:13, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

It looks like a pretty good overview to me. Neither do I see a "pretense that it's never erotic"; rather, the topic has been addressed in a family-friendly way. And there's no justification of homosexuality in the proposal, although I'm not sure that the "taboo" against blokes kissing on the lips is solely due to homosexual connotations. I support making this the article. Philip J. Rayment 01:19, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

What he said. DLerner 08:05, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
I agree. I like it. Well-rounded, comprehensive yet succinct, famiily-friendly. Nicely done. --Hsmom 13:42, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Thanks for feedback, all of you. So is there now a consensus towards moving this to the article page? Sideways 17:23, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
I am throwing in my support too. A lot of these sensitive topics can have family-friendly pages if they're written carefully, which I think the proposed text does very well. I especially thought the part about kissing in different cultures was handled well. In some cultures (I'm thinking France) - they think hugging is really intimate but a kiss on the cheeks ("le bees" is what they call it?) is just a normal greeting for friends and completely not erotic. -Foxtrot 19:32, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

cultural context

While i know this is for Americans, it would be apprpriate to add words like "In the United states, kissing on the lips means..." Russian men kiss on the lips and are not homosexual. Islamic men (from some countries, forgive me for not knowing which) kiss on the lips or cheeks. I'd hate to think some 16 year old assumes the president of Russia or President Bush are gay because they kissed eachother. (not that I think this has ever happened, but...)--MHayes 16:29, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for the feedback. I've made a couple of slight changes to the text in response. See here for how I've reworded that paragraph. If you want to make further changes to it yourself, go ahead - just put a short note here summarising any changes. I'm hoping that this can now soon be set up as a proper article. Sideways 17:22, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Now copied to article space. Sideways 05:36, 31 August 2008 (EDT)