Talk:Marriage/Archive 1

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As far as I know, when they say "civil marriage," they mean the legal thing that may or may not be between a heterosexual couple (depending on where you live). It's a statement of fact, not opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. --John 00:12, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

This is Conservapedia, where facts rule. John, if you want to throw in deeply false ideas (like the idea that a civil marriage can be between more than two people), they might like you in Wikipedia. In most states, civil unions are exclusively for a man and a woman! CEinhorn 01:23, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

This article doesn't take a strong enough stand on the position that Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN. (cf. The New York State Supreme Court's decision to ban gay 'marriages' in 2006. [1])
So be BOLD and edit it so that it is RIGHTeous! Tmtoulouse 15:05, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Careful TM - he'll take you down with him.--British_cons (talk) 15:09, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Nah, I am an integral part of the web of symbiosis between this site and reality. My presence would be missed too much. Tmtoulouse 15:11, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
No less a noted scholar as Stanley Kurtz has continually noted the importance of marriage as cement for our society, and also observed that the European dissolution of marriage has led (severally) to a) the hostile takeover of western civilization by Islamic immigrants b) growth of the welfare state c) massive expansion of children being aborted and raised out of wedlock by single mothers.[2] Furthermore, recognition of gay marriage is a trojan horse tactic leading inevitably to incest, recognition of multiple partners, and (probably) sanctioned bestiality, at least with larger mammals, like dogs. [3] DunsScotus 15:13, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Those aborted babies being raised by single mothers are tragic. And its only a matter of time till SMALLER mammals will also be used. Naked mole rates indeed! Tmtoulouse 15:15, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

It remains to be seen, of course, whether the change in laws relating to same-sex marriage in various European countries and Canada have any effect on their social outcomes. See Britinme 00:04 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I really don't see the connection between gay-marriage and incest and bestiality. As a European myself I do know that problems with Muslim fundamentalism existed before gay-marriage was legalized in 2001, the reason that it has worsened since then may have more to do with September 11, 2001 and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, don't you think?

And marriage is not Christian or Jewish, it's a tradition practised by most cultures and is thousands of years older than the Judaism and there are indications that similar traditions to bind a couple existed in the stone age.

[[4]] [[5]]

Please include that in this article.

Middle Man

I'd be happy to include something which gives an indication of how early the tradition of marriage appeared in human society - unfortunately the two links you supplied don't cut it. The second one doesn't mention marriage at all, and the first only mentions it once in passing, with no supporting evidence. If you can find another citation which has more evidence linked with it, I'll put it there. You're quite right that there needs to be some editing of the section that says marriage is only 'before God' if those getting married are Christian, but I need to give some thought to how to replace that to include other cultures and traditions. --Britinme 14:56, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

These were the only links (besides wikipedia, but that would never be used on this site) I could find so soon, although I found some in Dutch and French.

The first one was a reference to marriages in Catal Huyuk, but doesn't mention the founding date of the city, the second one I included because it does provide this date.

Middle Man

Yes, the second link provides dates for Catal Huyuk, but the first link does not mention marriage in the context of Catal Huyuk as such. It just says in a more general way, 'Rituals associated with lifecycle events (birth, marriage, death) appear early in human culture' without referring specifically to findings at Catal Huyuk. I'm not objecting to including this as a concept - I just want a better citation to show it.--Britinme 23:46, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Couldn't find anything else, I only knew of it through a documentary, here's a link about marriage in ancient Egypt, next best thing. [6]

Middle Man

"between a man and woman"

  • Is indeed true "by definition" of holy matrimony;
  • is true of civil marriage by longstanding custom and popular expectation;
  • but is not true of civil marriage "by definition."

The whole gay marriage issue arises precisely because it is not true by definition. If it were, there would be no need for a political struggle to write new laws to make it true "by definition." Dpbsmith 10:48, 22 April 2007 (EDT)