Talk:Yin and Yang

Minor edit to remove the link to "Qi" page. The "Qi" page currently talks about a British Television show and has nothing to do with Yin & Yang. --Taj 17:20, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

This page is very New Age-y. It's not really appropriate for an encyclopedia, really. It also appears that the original writer of the piece doesn't know too much about pre-modern Chinese science or Daojiao - and definitely not Daojia. Blackjuice 05:52, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

In response to your comments: One of the originators of this article was Aschlafly. Since this project (Conservapedia) is his creation, I would defer to his judgement for what is appropriate. Your edits seem confusing, I am reverting because I believe the prior wording was more concise, clearer. It isn't really necessary to go into "pre-modern Chinese science" to define yin and yang - maybe that should be an article by itself? Also, Taoism/Daoism are interchangable terms, either are acceptable. --Taj 13:15, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

"Daoism" is the currently accepted form - this is my field of expertise, I promise you. It more accurately reflects pronunciation. The revert would also be a misjudged idea, because the old version was actually incorrect - things do not exist as "either yin or yang". A thing is yin or yang in relation to another thing, not in and of itself. Using the example I used in the edit, a rainy day isn't "yin". It is yin in relation to a sunny day, and yang in relation to a stormy day. And yes, it is necessary to go into pre-modern Chinese science to define yin and yang, in the same way that it is necessary to talk about European science when discussing concepts of gravity and what it is. Should there be an article on Chinese science in the pre-modern period? Yes, but I am probably not the one to begin it, because my expertise is classical Chinese literature, philosophy and history, not technology. I could read up on my Joseph Needham for that if you like, but that's a level of commitment that I'd find quite difficult at the moment. Anyway: It is always tempting for western folk to look at China and Chinese things as a mystical other, and that all things coming from China must be esoteric and hard to comprehend. This article is a product of that, and it won't help anyone. You can keep it as you want to, but in the present form, it is incorrect. The entirety of what I do on this site is the editing of articles on China and Chinese things to ensure that they are factually accurate - because that is what I know. Should Aschafly be able to simply take out things he doesn't know? Of course not, and despite his undoubted wide-ranging knowledge, this article is inaccurate. Blackjuice

I believe we both want to achieve the same goal: an article that is clean and concise and helpful to the reader. With all due respect, I really believe the article is accurate. I researched no less than 15 sites before contributing to this article. We cannot copy from any source, but the general statements are sound. Because this is your field of expertise, I think the temptation to put as much info as possible is there; but really, all this requires is a short explanation, in my opinion. If you truly disagree, you are free to revert it, and I won't change it.

A few definitions I found with a quick search:

Crystal Reference Encyclopedia - yin and yang - The Chinese concept that everything is explicable in terms of two complementary but opposing principles.

http://www.acupuncture.com.au/education/theory/yinandyang.html - Yin and Yang are two opposing but complementary forces found in all things in the universe. Yin, the darker element, is passive, dark, feminine, downward-seeking, and corresponds to the night; yang, the brighter element, is active, light, masculine, upward-seeking and corresponds to the day. Yin and yang do not exclude each other. Everything has its opposite: No one thing is completely yin or completely yang. Each contains the seed of its opposite.

Dictionary.com - yin and yang - two principles, one negative, dark, and feminine (yin), and one positive, bright, and masculine (yang), whose interaction influences the destinies of creatures and things.

American Heritage Dictionary - yin and yang - Two forces in the universe, according to a Chinese theory: yin is the passive, negative force, and yang the active, positive force. --Taj 14:05, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

I don't want to revert - however, what I am saying is not contradicted by the above definitions. In fact, it is supported by them. Especially the acupuncture.com.au source (although it's not really academic, it is correct.) No one thing is completely yang or yin, and things are yin or yang in relation to one another. I'll change that section alone at some point, and keep the T in Taoism rather than the D if you like, but currently, calling one thing yin and another yang, as the article says at the moment, is not the real theory, it's just a common corruption. Even in China, actually. I suppose that should be mentioned. Anyway, yes, the goal is the same. Blackjuice 14:47, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

Ok, if you feel it could be improved, please do. I changed it back because honestly, I found the previous version to be confusing, and was attempting to make a very clear and understandable definition geared towards the average person (like myself) without extensive knowledge of the subject. Thanks for your input! --Taj 16:30, 4 June 2007 (EDT)