User talk:Norwich

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Hello, Norwich, and welcome to Conservapedia!

We're glad you are here to edit. We ask that you read our Editor's Guide before you edit.

At the right are some useful links for you. You can include these links on your user page by putting "{{Useful links}}" on the page. Any questions--ask!

Thanks for reading, Norwich!

Tash 12:01, 15 October 2007 (EDT)


This article was mainly worked on by a Sysop User:RobS, You should contact him for any issues. Geo.Complain! 18:36, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

No, Geo, this article was mainly worked on by me. Go back and look at the history. Rob has done a great deal of work related to Venona and McCarthy and is certainly a great contributor to the article. But as for the subject itself, Norwich would have better been directed to me to explain to him why his source is inappropriate and where he could find accurate sources, including the Congressional Record. I hope that helped. Scorpio 22:49, 22 December 2007 (EST)
Thank you, Geo, for you guidance. I have done so. It wasn't clear where to turn to. Sincerely, Norwich 14:31, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
It's unlocked. Rob Smith 14:36, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

Flanders role in Senate censure of Joseph McCarthy

I propose substituting the following text for the first two paragraphs in Joseph McCarthy#Condemnation and the Watkins Committee. The current text suggests that Flanders was acting at the bidding of “a coalition of Communists, Liberals, and Eisenhower Administration officials.” The literature shows him to be a conservative with an approach to fighting communism that was different from that of Senator McCarthy. Please leave your comments at "Your comments below, please". Norwich 16:07, 11 December 2007 (EST)

Proposed text

While over the previous few years, Senator McCarthy had withstood countless biased and unsubstantiated attacks by Liberals, Communists, etc., the organized effort to remove McCarthy from his Chairmanship and officially condemn him began in March of 1954.

Senate opposition

On March 9, 1954 a fellow conservative and anti-communist Republican Senator, Ralph E. Flanders of Vermont, gave a speech criticizing what he felt was Senator McCarthy’s "misdirection of our efforts at fighting communism” and his role in “the loss of respect for us in the world at large.” Flanders felt the nation should pay more attention looking outwards at the “alarming world-wide advance of Communist power” that would leave the United States and Canada as “the last remnants of the free world.” [1][2] Eisenhower Administration cabinet officials told Flanders to “lay off,” while President Eisenhower sent Flanders a brief note of appreciation for his speech, but did not otherwise confer with him or explicitly support him.[3] In a June 1, 1954 speech, Flanders emphasized how the Soviet Union was winning military successes in Asia without risking its own resources or men, and said this nation was witnessing "another example of economy of the conquest of this country for communism." He added, "One of the characteristic elements of communist and fascist tyranny is at hand as citizens are set to spy upon each other."[4] Flanders told the Senate that McCarthy's "anti-Communism so completely parallels that of Adolf Hitler as to strike fear into the hearts of any defenseless minority"; he accused McCarthy of spreading "division and confusion" and saying, "Were the Junior Senator from Wisconsin in the pay of the Communists he could not have done a better job for them."[5]

On June 11, 1954 Flanders introduced a resolution charging McCarthy “with unbecoming conduct" and calling for his removal from his committee chairmanship. Upon the advice of Senators John Sherman Cooper and J. William Fulbright and legal assistance from the National Committee for an Effective Congress, a liberal organization, he modified his resolution to “bring it in line with previous actions of censure.”[6] After introducing his censure motion, Flanders had no active role in the ensuing Watkins Committee hearings. Flanders bore McCarthy no personal animosity and reported that McCarthy accepted his invitation to join him at lunch after the hearings had taken place.[7]

Watkins Committee

(rest of existing text would follow here)

References for the above passage

  1. Flanders, Ralph E. (March 9, 1954). Activities of Senator McCarthy—The World Crisis. Proceedings and debates of the 83rd Congress, second session—Congressional Record. 
  2. Flanders, Ralph E. (1961). Senator from Vermont. Little, Brown, 255-257. 
  3. Flanders, Ralph E. (1961). Senator from Vermont. Little, Brown, 258. 
  4. Crozier, Barney (September 29, 1979). Vermont Senator's Speech Heralded McCarthy's End. Times-Argus Newspaper. 
  5. Woods, Randall Bennett (1995). Fulbright: A Biography. Cambridge University Press, 187. ISBN 0-521-48262-3. 
  6. Flanders, Ralph E. (1961). Senator from Vermont. Little, Brown, 260-261, 267. 
  7. Flanders, Ralph E. (1961). Senator from Vermont. Little, Brown, 267-268. 

Your comments below, please

This certainly is interesting, well researched and balanced. The sentence, "Eisenhower Administration cabinet officials told Flanders to “lay off,” while President Eisenhower sent Flanders a brief note of appreciation for his speech, but did not otherwise confer with him or explicitly support him" is fine. Recently I read Eisenhower's account in his Memoirs, Eisenhower moreless indirectly takes credit for bringing down McCarthy. I have no objections to inserting this material.

Let me add, it was peculiar circumstances with a now de-Sysoped Sysop that led to the current shape of the Joe McCarthy entry, which still emphasizes McCarthy in his own time, that is, from 1950 to 1954. In the long run, that is to say, in the context of American history this will need to be revised, and we need to get away from McCarthy's failings, and emphasize what McCarthy investigated, Communist Party USA activity for the two decades prior to anyone every hearing of McCarthy. Rob Smith 15:18, 12 December 2007 (EST)