View source for Talk:Federal Debt Limit

== Page Rewrite ==

This page is in need of a major rewrite / expansion.  The current information in it is entirely not sourced and reads as an opinion piece.  Also, it would read better if it was split into a couple of sections.  I think it would read better with the information on what the Debt Ceiling is in a section, and then the controversy surrounding Obama's desire to raise it in another section.  I will try to begin working on it in the upcoming week and hopefully we will be able to get a more articulate article out of this.  --[[User:MRellek|MRellek]] 10:00, 17 July 2011 (EDT)
:Are there any facts in the article that you dispute?  Do you dispute that the debt limit is required by the Constitution, that it is similar to a credit card limit or that Obama wants to raise taxes?  The lamestream media has been covering for the gangster in chief by attempting to blame conservatives for Obama's spending binge.  Conservapedians won't stand for the same here. [[User:HP|HP]] 01:04, 18 July 2011 (EDT)
::The article needs sources.  I do not dispute the information, but we need to reference our claims.  Please feel free to add additional material and help cite some of what is already listed.  --[[User:MRellek|MRellek]] 16:22, 19 July 2011 (EDT)


== Debt Graphic ==

I like the idea of the graphic, however I cannot read the current graphic.  I do not know if this is isolated to me, or if perhaps we could find a better one that has the text for what the graphic is illustrated still on it, as the legend appears to be missing.  --[[User:MRellek|MRellek]] 21:23, 19 July 2011 (EDT)
: The above issue was fixed almost immediately.  --[[User:MRellek|MRellek]] 21:29, 19 July 2011 (EDT)

== References ==

There needs to be a lot more cites added to this article before it's ready to be featured. There are many statements (and indeed, whole paragraphs) that are unreferenced. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 11:42, 28 July 2011 (EDT)
:Are there any you could find yourself? I'll look for some later, but it would be helpful if you could as well. Thanks!!--[[User:JamesWilson|JamesWilson]] 11:48, 28 July 2011 (EDT)
::I'll try, but I won't be able to get to it until tonight at the earliest.--[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 12:08, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

== A thanks and additional suggestions before becoming a featured article ==

1) Thanks for adding the new cites, RobS. It's helping to move the article forward.

2) While I understand the current debt ceiling crisis is what's on everyone's minds right now, there have been other crises in the history of the ceiling. Off the top of my head, wasn't there one in '94 or '95 (Gingrech was involved, I'm pretty sure), and another in the early 2000s? The previous crises should be added to the history section in order to have a more complete article on the subject.

3) I have always felt someone should understand the background and history of a situation before dealing with the present. This is why I'm suggesting moving the history section up in front of the current crisis sections.

This subject is nowhere near my area of expertise or interest really, but these are a few things that pop out at me. I read the article because I noticed it was nominated for a featured article. Good luck! --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 19:35, 28 July 2011 (EDT)
:The history can get complicated rapidly; the nation existed for 130+ years prior to a ceiling, and ''why'' certain legislators and constituencies felt the need need for a ceiing. This gets into a discussion how the Civil War & Panama Canals were financed, for example.  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 19:45, 28 July 2011 (EDT)
::As I said, this isn't my area of expertise, so I'm not completely up on the history of the topic, and I was just presenting my first(ish) impressions of the article. I dredged up some of my admittedly foggy memories, and thought having the article explain that this isn't the first, or the only, debt crisis to occur in the nation's history might be a good idea. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 00:44, 29 July 2011 (EDT)
:::This is certainly one of the biggest in many years; the 1917 events that led to the law should be incorporated into U.S. involvement in [[World War I]]; in the mid 1930s, paying off the debt was directly related to creation of the [[Neutrality Act]]. It's unfortunate we're writing it on the fly, because it does need much more serious treatment. And this issue may not disappear anytime soon.  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:17, 29 July 2011 (EDT)

==Image==
The main image does not make much sense to me.  What does "federal net outlays" mean

=="credit card"==
*'' similar to a credit card company telling a person with either no income or little income who has maxed out on his credit card ''
umm, yes  and no. The out of control debt is largely the result of ''non''-discretionary spending, i.e., spending on autopilot. So the comparsison to a credit card limit technically is misleading, because nobody that I know is mandated by law to max out their credit card.  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 15:16, 3 August 2011 (EDT)
:I agree, the analogy is clumsy. [[User:Human|Human]] 00:44, 4 August 2011 (EDT)

Here you go again, Rob.  Barack Hussein Obama's trillion dollar handout was not mandated by law until he signed that law.  [[User:HP|HP]] 00:53, 4 August 2011 (EDT)

:Also, since we are on cash accounting, Medicare and Social Security are still off the balance sheets and are currently in surplus (or close to it).  So your statement is factually incorrect.  [[User:HP|HP]] 00:56, 4 August 2011 (EDT)