View source for Talk:Yellow vest movement

Gonna need some help on this. It cannot be identified as nationalist, or even populist as yet. It contains an anarchist fringe. It is focused on bread-and-butter issues, which means it likely has immigrant supporters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 18:45, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:It seems like a big tent movement. Many different groups are in it. You might find the info I already added here helpful: [[Emmanuel Macron#Environmental policies]] (last paragraph in section). --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 18:47, 5 December 2018 (EST)
::Yes, its evolving. The suspension is intended to kick-the-can down the road past the May 2019 EU elections. So while that temporarily ends the violence, organizers now must try to hold it together.
::In my view, it is a big tent that knows no race, Creed, religion, color, national origin, sexual identity or immigration status. The only thing that unites them is being anti-[[climate science]], anti-[[global climate agreement]]s, and anti-carbon tax. While movement's like Le Pen's National Rally may benefit, it also is in danger of fragmenting as other groups attempt to attach their pet issues to it. We should allow it to just develop the way it is right now without attaching a [[populist]] lable to it, yet. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 19:00, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:::I'm not sure the movement is necessarily "anti-climate science, anti-global climate agreements" -- since many of these people are on the Left, I'm sure they, overall, support the Paris agreement and other left-wing policies ''in theory,'' but they don't like the impact those policies are having on their personal lives, cost of living, etc. --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 19:14, 5 December 2018 (EST)
:::: That's exactly what we're hoping will come out of this - that Leftist ideologues will see how globalism, global climate agreements, and worshipping at the altar of climate science hits them in the pocket book.
::::I'm going to use the whole Macron section that begins with Paris climate agreement. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 19:20, 5 December 2018 (EST)

==Association with Trump or nationalism==
The group has no central organization. It is a spontaneous grassroots uprising across the political spectrum. It enjoys 80% popular support in opinion polls in a country that voted 66% for Macron eighteen months ago. It has been infiltrated by violent [[provocateur]]s and [[anarchist]]s from both the Left and Right. It will not survive in it's current form, and '''it will fragment with false reporting''' from either the [[MSM]] or alternative media - which is exactly the globalists' objective and only way to defeat it, or at least slow it down.

IMO, the Breitbart report that an unorganized group, with no central leadership, that has been infiltrated by violent extremist, has published a pro-Trump manifesto is blatantly false reporting. It is intended as 'Rah Rah' cheerleading for the nationalist right, but has the effect of stunting the movement's growth. It should be removed. '''It is far too premature''' to suggest this anti-elitist, anti-globalist movement is right-wing, nationalist, or pro-Trump. Breitbart is only promoting [[feelgoodism]], and harming the movement's prospects. 

The cite & text should be removed, unless you place the caveat or disclaimer, "a group claiming to speak for the movement published a manifesto" (or some such language), which further serves the objective of fragmentation.

Let things develop. Let them organize an official voice by elected delegates to publish a manifesto. Remove false reporting. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 15:21, 10 December 2018 (EST)

:I'm OK with you changing that mention/placement/wording/etc. -- I would appreciate it if you can find a way to keep the reference somewhere in the article. --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 15:30, 10 December 2018 (EST)
::Ok thanks. I'll put it in some context about the movement's growth and leadership or lack thereof. We'll be getting news any minute about Macron's speech to the nation, and see what lines he draws and the reaction to it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 15:34, 10 December 2018 (EST)
:::Here's Macron's statements: [https://www.foxnews.com/world/macron-to-address-france-after-latest-riots-in-paris-result-in-nearly-1000-arrests][https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-protests/macron-to-speed-up-tax-cuts-raise-wages-at-historic-time-for-france-idUSKBN1O929Y][https://thehill.com/policy/international/420619-macron-raising-minimum-wage-after-weeks-of-protests] --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 15:53, 10 December 2018 (EST)
::::Do you agree with this article's interpretation of Macron's concessions? [https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/10/emmanuel-macron-surrenders-yellow-vests-demands-bl/] --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 08:54, 11 December 2018 (EST)

These are some of the factors at work: (1) the fact the protests occur on weekends means most of these people have jobs; (2) the fact leftist students and Marxists have joined in cuz they instinctively can't resist an anti-establishment revolution.

So the discrepancy between "working class" and "professional revolutionaries" has to sort itself out. Here, the successful Marxist elites have used [[climate change]] to promote their revolution; now the lower level Marxists, people of [[Ocasio-Cortez]] age, are faced with the reality of a choice - casting their lot with the oppressed lowlife working class, or cling to the values of Marxist elites. [[Science]] is at the core of the dispute. And everyone in France knows the mob always wins. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 15:45, 10 December 2018 (EST)

===Classic Marxist theory===
What is at work is the Classic Marxist theory dispute we saw in the Sino-Soviet split between [[Marxist-Leninist]]s and [[Maoist]]s. In America it was played out between the [[SDS]] and [[Weather Underground]].

Marx claimed the working class was key to revolution. Marxism-Leninism is the theory a globalist elite use to govern ''after'' a working class revolution is achieved. Maoism is a theory that the working class can be by-passed in favor of an armed band of professional revolutionary guerillas (like Castro or Mao). The SDS was organized by traditional Russian communists who tried to organize a student-worker alliance (which is exactly what's happening in France now); the [[WUO]] and [[Black Panthers]] were violent extreme Maoists who saw no need to organize with workers.

Those who oppose this structural analysis are automatically branded [[fascist]]. There's no reason to play into the Marxists' hands. It's up to the students to decide if Marxist scientific theory is worth sacrificing their futures, or will economic realities dominate. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 16:11, 10 December 2018 (EST)

Putting in links like the one in question from  Breitbart only convinces idiot students of globalist's propaganda - that yellow vests are a fascist/nationalist movement. The focus must remain on Macron, the EU, the "rich", elites, globalism, carbon tax, climate change, Paris Accords, and science. References to Trump, nationalist, patriotism, etc. should be avoided as things develop. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 17:12, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== EU hypocrisy ==

The EU was going ballistic over the Italians' budget proposal that they said would violate its austerity rules (they really didn't, but the budget was less austere than its predecessors). Now, Macron apparently will actually violate EU budget rules with his concessions: [https://www.politico.eu/article/opinion-santa-macron-blows-hole-in-budget/][https://www.politico.eu/article/how-emmanuel-macron-gave-italian-populists-a-boost/][https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-protests/macrons-concessions-set-to-blow-out-french-deficit-idUSKBN1OA20M] Let's see what the EU says over this. --[[User:1990&#39;sguy|1990&#39;sguy]] ([[User talk:1990&#39;sguy|talk]]) 08:54, 11 December 2018 (EST)

==For the record==
Since the yellow vest movement is growing, and doesn't appear to be going away before the May 3019 EU elections, I'm going to begin reporting events here with a timestamp.
*[https://youtu.be/Lxg8hNiTxMo Tear gassing in Brussels]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 08:29, 16 December 2018 (EST)
*[https://www.nowtheendbegins.com/agenda-21-yellow-vest-protests-reach-sweden-as-thousands-of-swedes-gather-to-protest-un-global-migration-pact/ Swedish protests]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Deep Six the Deep State!'']]</sup> 18:24, 16 December 2018 (EST)