Talk:American History Lecture One

!

Due to the controversial nature of this article, it has been locked by the Administrators to prevent edit wars or vandalism. Sysops, please do not unlock it without first consulting the protecting sysop.

This lecture was improved, and now the changes have been removed. Why?

I made some changes to the American History lecture. My changes were deleted. Why?

They're used for Christian homeschooling and I don't think that the changes made are consistent with their paradigm. MountainDew 19:02, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

Several edits removed credit from Christianity from the lecture. For example, edits removed this:

The very first words of the Mayflower Compact were “In ye name of God Amen.” Just as our Nation’s founders started with a prayer, so do we. Prayer clears out the noise in our minds. We are looking for knowledge and inspiration here, and that comes from God. In most countries parents do not have the freedom even to have a class like this. The main reason we have freedoms is because Americans are more devoted to religion than in other countries.

Such edits are improper. I can't confirm the commenter above did those edits, but someone did (I don't know who the commenter above is, since he didn't sign his comment).--Aschlafly 11:05, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Starving Time?

Since the "Starving Time" is by most historians considered to have lasted from about 1609-1610-11, how could John Smith, who left Virginia in 1609, have become a leader of the colony afterwards? --PF Fox 17:21, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

There was an earlier "starving time," but the lecture has changed on this point anyway. Thanks.--Aschlafly 11:05, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

It has not been changed on this point. It still reads:

"From 1607-1611, the Jamestown settlement lived under socialism, whereby the group shared its food with everyone no matter how much or little he worked. This economic system was a complete failure as no one had any incentive to do any work. John Smith arrived from England and he installed a conservative economic system: “don’t work, don’t eat!” Magically, by 1614 there was suddenly plenty to eat."

Now, first of all, pretty much EVERY source I've examined uses the "Starving Time" to refer to the hard times of 1609-10 or 11. What earlier "starving time" do you have in mind, and what source refers to it as "The Starving Time?" Second, since Smith left for good in 1609, exactly how did he manage to change the Virginia settlement from a socialits to a free market economic system AFTER 1611 so that "magically, by 1614 there was suddenly enough to eat." --PF Fox 12:56, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Virginia had a "Straving time" almost the entire first decade of settlement. In 1613, George Percy led an attack on some natives, and despite the fact the colonists were starving, burned their cornfields (See Morgan, American Slavery, American Freedom)

The above does not address my point, which is how Captain John Smith could have overseen conversion to a "free market" Jamestown economy in or after 1611 when in fact he left in 1609? --PF Fox 19:55, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Correct. Smith did help the colony survive its early years, but he did not make Jamestown an economic success. That did not occur until nearly a decade after he departed, with the development of tobacco as a cash crop.

Which is unfortunately NOT what it says here in this Lecture. --PF Fox 16:11, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

I know. I editied this lecture before (and I did return to correct many of the errors), but the powers that be at Conservapedia have "locked" the lecture, somehow thinking that improvement=vandalism.

--Columbus' Landfall?--

Columbus did not land on Christmas eve. His ships sighted land on October 11th, 1492, and landed the next day. (see Columbus, Journal of First Voyage, at http://www.americanjourneys.org/, pages 108-110)[user:dw1237200)

--Slavery in Massachussetts--

"Massachusetts did not allow slavery."

That is absolutely untrue. The Puritans in Massachussetts kept slaves and dealt in slaves until the late 18th century. Tituba, one of the first people accused in the 1692 Salem Witch trials, was a slave. --PF Fox 13:30, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Support, please? By the way, I note how you slipped in "dealt in slaves." No one denied that there was a slave trade.--Aschlafly 13:58, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Actually, I was trying to be fair. While Massachusetts dealt in slaves, mostly in Indian slaves and slaves from the West Indies, they were soon overtaken in that trade by Rhode Island. I do find myself musing, however, about the presumed moral superiority of a colony that you claim "did not allow slavery" (In fact, it did for well over a century) not being averse to making a few bucks off it.

On to the cites:

From THE PILGRIM READER,George Willison, Doubleday and Company 1953

"For years later, in 1641, the Bay formally recognized the institution of slavery in its CODE OF FUNDAMENTALS OR BODY OF LIBERTIES, anticipating Virginia by many years in legally instituting the "peculiar institution" being the first of the English colonies to do so.

There were Indian and Negro slaves in the Plymouth colony as early as 1646, when the authorities threatened to sell Indians or exchange them for Negroes as punishment for offenses..In 1706, Cotton Mather noted in his diary, "Received a singular blessing in the gift of a likely slave, which was a smile of heaven on this family."...slaves continued to be sold in the Boston market as late as 1788, when the traffic was forbidden."

In short, Massachussets not only allowed slavery -- they were the first colony to institute it. Your later claim about the "Virginia institution of slavery" "spreading to the colonies of Maryland, Carolina" etc., as if Virginia had been responsible for introducing that "peculiar institution" is misleading.

From NARRATIVES OF THE WITCHCRAFT CASES (1648-1706), edited by George Lincoln Burr, Charles Scribner Sons, 1914 Note:

Notes: "The Rev. Samuel Parris (1653-1720)..had lived for a time in Barbadoes whence he had brought back with him THE TWO SLAVES, John and Tituba...Sara Good, who with Sarah Osburn and Parris's SLAVE-WOMAN TITUBA..."(Emphasis added)

"...where an Indian Man attended us, he shewed several Scars, that seemed as if they had been long there, and shewed them as done by Witchcraft, and acquainted us that his Wife WHO ALSO WAS A SLAVE (emphasis added) was imprisoned for Witchcraft..."--PF Fox 15:00, 21 April 2007 (EDT)