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mLine 821:
Line 821: − ::::::::::::::::Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. John 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21. Plain and simple, easy to understand. But you still just don't get it. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:53, 3 November 2019 (EST)+ − +
→Scriptural support for the analysis
:::::::::::::::I was baptized by water and the Spirit, but I didn't do it. Therefore my salvation was not dependent on an action on MY part. You keep insisting that we baptize ourselves and do the work ourselves. No. I did nothing. Jesus did, by washing me with his precious blood in the water of regeneration. Sacramental baptism is done to us and for us by Jesus Christ Himself by water and the Spirit. No Christian, Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic does the work to save himself. None of us baptized ourselves. If you still think baptism is a work I did to myself to be saved you are wrong. I didn't do it. Baptism by water and the Spirit is the supreme grace of God. Pure gift bestowed. No one can earn it for himself, and no one can do it to himself or for himself. It's done to us, not by us. Baptism is not a work of our own salvation. It's the work of Jesus by his blood. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:38, 3 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::I was baptized by water and the Spirit, but I didn't do it. Therefore my salvation was not dependent on an action on MY part. You keep insisting that we baptize ourselves and do the work ourselves. No. I did nothing. Jesus did, by washing me with his precious blood in the water of regeneration. Sacramental baptism is done to us and for us by Jesus Christ Himself by water and the Spirit. No Christian, Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic does the work to save himself. None of us baptized ourselves. If you still think baptism is a work I did to myself to be saved you are wrong. I didn't do it. Baptism by water and the Spirit is the supreme grace of God. Pure gift bestowed. No one can earn it for himself, and no one can do it to himself or for himself. It's done to us, not by us. Baptism is not a work of our own salvation. It's the work of Jesus by his blood. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:38, 3 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. John 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21. Plain and simple, easy to understand. But you still just don't get it. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:53, 3 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::Ok. Very Good. Let's back up now.
::::::::::::::::Ok. Very Good. Let's back up now.
::::::::::::::::Why do we need salvation? (Note: My question is "Why do we need salvation?", not "Why do we need baptism?"). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 23:48, 3 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::Why do we need salvation? (Note: My question is "Why do we need salvation?", not "Why do we need baptism?"). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 23:48, 3 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::Why? “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, '''he cannot enter the kingdom of God'''.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:57, 3 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::Why? “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, '''he cannot enter the kingdom of God'''.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:57, 3 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::Why do we need salvation? “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, '''he cannot enter the kingdom of God'''.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:57, 3 November 2019 (EST)<br>'''God is not willing that any should perish!''' 2 Peter 3:9. The promise is to you and to your children. Acts 2:39 --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 00:04, 4 November 2019 (EST)
:::::::::::::::::Why do we need salvation? “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, '''he cannot enter the kingdom of God'''.” – Baptism now '''saves''' you. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 23:57, 3 November 2019 (EST)<br>'''God is not willing that any should perish!''' 2 Peter 3:9. The promise is to you and to your children. Acts 2:39 --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 00:04, 4 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::::Does sin have anything to do with it? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 00:00, 4 November 2019 (EST)
::::::::::::::::::Does sin have anything to do with the need for salvation? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 00:00, 4 November 2019 (EST)