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:This doctrine of baptismal regeneration, which includes infant baptism, is repudiated as being totally against the teaching of the Bible. Abraham, our father in [[faith]], was converted, regenerated, forgiven and had righteousness reckoned (imputed) to him by faith (an unborn or newborn child cannot exercise faith), being circumcised in the heart by faith, apart from physical circumcision, baptism, or any other statute, or ordinance. Those who reject infant baptism as regenerative or '''salvific''' in any manner accept that the outward [[symbol]] of washing of water with the word is an [[ordinance]] to be faithfully obeyed, not a [[sacrament]], an outward testimony to faith in the '''salvation''' of God through [[Belief|believing]] in the promises of Jesus Christ alone. They obey His ordained ordinances, including baptism, because by faith in Him they '''''are''''' regenerated, not in order to '''''be''''' regenerated; and as a result of '''''having''''' a new heart, not that they might receive a new heart.<ref>See [https://www.bing.com/search?q=a+concise+refutation+of+baptismal+regeneration%2C+by+james+p.+shelley.&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=3f263ada36184adab3a65191ce7aba9c&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0 A Concise Refutation of Baptismal Regeneration, by James P. Shelley (bing.com)] <br> Also [https://arcapologetics.org/comparative-religion/baptismal-regeneration-refuted/ Baptismal Regeneration Refuted, By Robin A. Brace - Apologetics Resource Center(arcapologetics.org)]</ref>

:This doctrine of baptismal regeneration, which includes infant baptism, is repudiated as being totally against the teaching of the Bible. Abraham, our father in [[faith]], was converted, regenerated, forgiven and had righteousness reckoned (imputed) to him by faith (an unborn or newborn child cannot exercise faith), being circumcised in the heart by faith, apart from physical circumcision, baptism, or any other statute, or ordinance. Those who reject infant baptism as regenerative or '''salvific''' in any manner accept that the outward [[symbol]] of washing of water with the word is an [[ordinance]] to be faithfully obeyed, not a [[sacrament]], an outward testimony to faith in the '''salvation''' of God through [[Belief|believing]] in the promises of Jesus Christ alone. They obey His ordained ordinances, including baptism, because by faith in Him they '''''are''''' regenerated, not in order to '''''be''''' regenerated; and as a result of '''''having''''' a new heart, not that they might receive a new heart.<ref>See [https://www.bing.com/search?q=a+concise+refutation+of+baptismal+regeneration%2C+by+james+p.+shelley.&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=3f263ada36184adab3a65191ce7aba9c&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0 A Concise Refutation of Baptismal Regeneration, by James P. Shelley (bing.com)] <br> Also [https://arcapologetics.org/comparative-religion/baptismal-regeneration-refuted/ Baptismal Regeneration Refuted, By Robin A. Brace - Apologetics Resource Center(arcapologetics.org)]</ref>

No one can say that I didn't present both sides. The scriptures listed here are the best response I can give to the objections raised here regarding the need for conscious repentance, and the fact that infants unborn and born are incapable of it before they are able to walk. You have clearly articulated the position for credobaptism, [[Reiteration|reiterating]] the arguments for it which I was very careful to represent without distortion as more extensively explained in the article. Having been an ardent Conservative Baptist and anti-Catholic in my youth, I know the arguments for it from the inside. See the related article giving both views in '''[[Salvation: declarational salvation and ontological salvation]]'''. Both cannot be true at the same time. Only one is probably right. Either that, or both are wrong. Meanwhile, look at [http://biblehub.com/revelation/22-11.htm Revelation 22:11] and [http://biblehub.com/matthew/15-14.htm Matthew 15:14]. It remains a matter of faith and discernment and being "honest to God". In accordance with your own tradition of preaching, be very certain that your position is correct before you die. I cannot fault your obviously genuine sincerity and your passion for scriptural proof in defense of your position. This response above, and the whole of the article itself, is all I have to say to your position that baptism is not required for '''salvation'''. As a Bible believer, I cannot ignore the whole of the scriptural context of the Bible. I wish you well. ''pax vobis''. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 11:00, 10 October 2019 (EDT)

No one can say that I didn't present both sides. The scriptures listed here are the best response I can give to the objections raised here regarding the need for conscious repentance, and the fact that infants unborn and born are incapable of it before they are able to walk. You have clearly articulated the position for credobaptism, [[Reiteration|reiterating]] the arguments for it which I was very careful to represent without distortion as more extensively explained in the article. Having been an ardent Conservative Baptist and anti-Catholic in my youth, I know the arguments for it from the inside. See the related article giving both views in '''[[Salvation: declarational salvation and ontological salvation]]'''. Both cannot be true at the same time. Only one is probably right. Either that, or both are wrong. Meanwhile, look at [http://biblehub.com/revelation/22-11.htm Revelation 22:11] and [http://biblehub.com/matthew/15-14.htm Matthew 15:14]. It remains a matter of faith and discernment and being "honest to God". In accordance with your own tradition of preaching, be very certain that your position is correct before you die. I cannot fault your obviously genuine sincerity and your passion for scriptural proof in defense of your position. This response above, and the whole of the article itself, is all I have to say to your position that baptism is not required for '''salvation'''. As a Bible believer, I cannot ignore the whole of the scriptural context of the Bible. I wish you well. ''pax vobis''. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 11:00, 10 October 2019 (EDT)

:Thank you. I wasn't intending to get into an argument over the merits of one side or the other. Th Protestant version is quite straight forward - Romans 9:9-10, and Ephesian 2:8 ''By grace are ye '''saved'''...not of works'', attributing baptism as a "work" on the believers part, nullifying the work on the cross. In Protestantism, physical baptism is symbolic, and not necessary for '''salvation'''. Even in John the Baptist's day, it was symbolic; it wasn't lepers "going out in the wilderness to see," as Jesus said, it was lost sinners to ''hear'' the word of God, and be "immersed" or "baptized" in the word. John the Baptist performed a ritual, which was only symbolic, while delivering the word. This is the Protestant teaching in a few words. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 15:15, 10 October 2019 (EDT)

:Thank you. I wasn't intending to get into an argument over the merits of one side or the other. Th Protestant version is quite straight forward - Romans 10:9-10, and Ephesian 2:8 ''By grace are ye '''saved'''...not of works'', attributing baptism as a "work" on the believers part, nullifying the work on the cross. In Protestantism, physical baptism is symbolic, and not necessary for '''salvation'''. Even in John the Baptist's day, it was symbolic; it wasn't lepers "going out in the wilderness to see," as Jesus said, it was lost sinners to ''hear'' the word of God, and be "immersed" or "baptized" in the word. John the Baptist performed a ritual, which was only symbolic, while delivering the word. This is the Protestant teaching in a few words. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 15:15, 10 October 2019 (EDT)

:Even in Catholicism, infant baptism is symbolic, because babies are not immersed, only sprinkled. The word baptism means immersed. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 15:21, 10 October 2019 (EDT)

:Even in Catholicism, infant baptism is symbolic, because babies are not immersed, only sprinkled. The word baptism means immersed. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]} 15:21, 10 October 2019 (EDT)