Debate:The Groyper Wars

With all the controversies lately with Nick Fuentes, TPUSA, Michelle Malkin, YAF, Ashley St. Clair, etc., this seems to be increasingly relevant.

Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

Hey, I'm a member of Nick's community and consider myself a groyper sympathizer. Made an account for this. Let's talk if you're still around. StupidFrogposter (talk) 17:59, 29 April 2020 (EDT)

You have a pretty hefty essay there, and I'm not sure which parts are most important to you, so I'll address what interests me and we can take it from there.

First of all, I respect that you're honest and transparent about your own background in your user page, which isn't exactly orthodox conservatism. I'm kinda of like you, except I come from Ron Paul libertarianism. Obviously, this puts me at odds with a lot of "groypers" and Nick, who are very critical of libertarianism, but I have a good enough understanding of their views that I can defend them pretty well and I overlap with most of it. I also appreciate that you condemn censorship in no uncertain terms. The role that "groypers" or others with similar values is an interesting debate to have, and it's good that Conservapedia seems like they'll allow us to have it. In some "conservative" communities on bigger platforms, like reddit, you're not even allowed to play devil's advocate about it.

My next 2 paragraphs will address some points in the talk page.

Your point about the legacy paleocons not being on board with the groypers is interesting, and seems true. I've already seen the Spectator article, back in the fall, and found it pretty sketchy or weak. More broadly, though, it is true and interesting. There is an angle you are missing though. For example, Cotto and Gottfried, a current events show co-hosted by the great Paul Gottfried, took JF Gariépy's side over Fuentes' when he took credit for getting Nick banned. I don't bring this up to make a censorship point. It was interesting to me, because JF is usually considered "less optical" than Nick Fuentes is, because his list of guests on his own show includes some colorful characters Nick refuses to associate with and because he sometimes says some things explicitly that Nick will leave to subtext instead. Movement paleoconservatism has taken a sour stance on the groypers on temperament, sometimes also on policy, but it's interesting to see how they're navigating that in a unique way.

It doesn't surprise me that Ben Shapiro included Ron Paul on his hit list of alt-right influencers, but I don't think the reasons for his inclusion or others are condemnable. It's worth pointing out that Ben himself was a guest on Red Ice TV with Henrik and Lana back in 2014, another show that was banned from YouTube in 2019 or 2020. Similarly, Ben has spoken with Ann Coulter on camera who he also included on his alt-right list. In this sense, the issue with Ben isn't so much his own agenda or his disagreements with other factions but his own hypocrisy; the Daily Wire itself has been labelled alt-right by the mainstream media on multiple occasions, usually with retractions, but it has happened. People find it objectionable that an outlet with a lot of funding and close ties to Fox News, etc. gets a "get-out-of-alt-right-free" card, while more grassroots activists are left out to dry.

I'll get to your main essay later, I'd like to do this in parts. StupidFrogposter (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2020 (EDT)

Hi, I really appreciate that you did this, I wasn't expecting it at all. The Groyper Wars have been over for a long time. And after my essay was deleted by an admin (here is where my essay used to be), I was ready to give it up. Didn't see myself ever coming back to this. And I set up this page several months ago, this is the first time anyone has responded.

You said you would react to my main essay "later," and it's been a few days. If you're still there, I'd love to debate this with you, but I want to wait until you've reacted to my actual essay until I react to your response. If you post your reaction to the essay, I'd be more than happy to have a discussion with you! --- BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 13:48, 5 May 2020 (EDT)