Talk:American Indian

Could this article possibly be broken down into more pieces? American Indian in a broad sense refers to all the indigenous peoples of North and South America, which is alot of ground to cover. Can we do an article on just North American Indians, and then maybe one on South Americans?Jnl001 12:46, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

"Native American" vs. "native American"

The term "Native American" does not mean the same thing as the phrase "native American". (Sorry I didn't explain this edit in the comment line. I can expand my explanation here if anyone wants to discuss.)--Hsmom 23:12, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

So what's the difference? And if you think that there was a punctuation error, why didn't you just correct the punctuation? Please don't just remove the sentence. RSchlafly 01:36, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

Sorry - I did a quick edit when I should have explained and discussed it here first. Let me explain. As you know, "Native American" refers to an American Indian, whereas "native American" refers to someone who was born here. (As opposed to "naturalized American", which refers to someone who was born elsewhere but has become a citizen here - like Arnold Schwarzenegger, for example). I think the context in which "Native American" or "native American" is used is usually enough to differentiate them (especially because almost everyone who is Native American would also be native American). If the context is not clear, one can always use "native-born American" instead of "native American", or "American Indian" instead of "Native American". The original sentence in the article was "Furthermore, the term Native American literally means anyone who was born in American as an American, so it can also be used by any American who wants to distinguish himself from an American immigrant." This sentence, as written, didn't make any sense to me, because I read it literally - that is, I read it to mean that any native-born American could call themselves a "Native American", with a capital N. Now I see that's perhaps not what was meant by the original sentence. Of course anyone can call themselves anything they want, but since "Native American" (with a cap N) generally isn't used to mean "native-born American", I thought (based on my original reading of it) the sentence didn't really add anything useful to the article and was confusing. That's why I took it out - I didn't think the sentence would make sense if I changed the cap N to a lower case N. However, since you put it back in, I assume you think it's important to the article to explain the two terms, and I can see that makes a certain amount of sense. If we're going to include information about the term "native American", then I think the sentence needs a bit of tweaking. How about The term "Native American", with a capital N, should not be confused with the phrase "native American", with a lower-case N. The term "native American" or "native-born American" refers to an American who was born in America, as opposed to a "naturalized American", who was born elsewhere but has become a citizen of America. What do you think? I welcome your input - let's work together to make this the best it can be.--Hsmom 09:46, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

I believe that any native-born American is just as much a Native American as anyone else. I object to any implication that some people are more rightfully called Native Americans, with whatever punctuation, based on how many generations their ancestors lived in America. I don't think any more needs to be added.

Someone else tried to edit it to imply that using the term native American to refer to a native-born American went obsolete in the 19th century. However, I do not think that is true. In my experience, many non-Indians readily identify themselves as native Americans, and American Indians are happy to be called Indians. RSchlafly 11:16, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

RSchlaflyFirst, let me say I had *no idea* that this was being discussed over at "Native American" when I did the original edit!

I see your point that the term "Native American" *could*, in theory, be used to refer to someone who was born in America but is not of indigenous decent. However, my personal impression is that this usage is rare. Do you find that people actually use it this way (with the capital N), or are you just making the argument that it *could* be used this way? I agree with you that the use of "native American" (with a lower-case N) to mean "native-born American", is not obsolete, but we must be careful not to confuse the two. In fact, I think it's important to explain the usage of both. How's this for a compromise - I think it contains what you were saying, plus explains the different usage of the two terms:

The term "Native American" literally means anyone who was born in America, and can be used that way; however the term is usually used to refer to an American Indian. The phrase "native American" (with a lower-case "N") or "native-born American" is usually used to refer to an American who was born in America. In contrast, the term "naturalized American" refers to someone who was born elsewhere but has become a citizen of America. --Hsmom 14:33, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

You are making some statements about how terms are "usually" used. I doubt that you are correct, and I don't see how the statements are helpful even if they are. So I don't agree with your proposed change. RSchlafly 00:46, 27 May 2007 (EDT)