User talk:Hsmom

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Please Note For some reason that I cannot figure out, I am unable to receive email through CP. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please use my talk page if you wish to contact me.


Please provide this site with an entry for frisbee. Thank you for your attention in this matter. --Huey gunna getcha 17:57, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Aw, I wanted frisbee. :-( -- Rob PommerRob Pommer 17:59, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
I'll get right on that. --Hsmom 20:03, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Handy Hints

Here are a few examples of handy techniques. To make more sense of them, click on "edit" to see the code that produced these examples.

How to strike out text: Put <s> in front of the text, then </s> at the end of the text.

  • Example: How to <s>strike out</s> text.
  • Result: How to strike out text.

How to add references/citations: Put <ref> Title of Reference [URL of reference] </ref> The title can be put after the URL also, but it looks nicer in the reference section when it is put before the URL. The title will not be seen with the text, it will only appear in the references section if there is one.

  • Example: <ref>Conservapedia Main Page []</ref>
  • Result: (See the References section below.)[1]

How to add a reference section at the end of an article: Put == References == to create the heading. Then on the next line put <references/>. Every page that includes citations should have a references section at the bottom.

  • Example:

== References ==


  • Result: See below, at the bottom of the page.
  • Result: (See the References section below.)[2]

How to add a request for a citation:

  • Add {{fact}} after the section that needs a citation.


  1. Conservapedia Main Page [1]
  2. Conservapedia Main Page [2]

Fan mail

I like your approach and your comments. I was neither homeschooled nor have I homeschooled my kids, but I was drawn to this site because I was intrigued by the idea of its being a resource where high-school-age kids could learn by writing articles, and by the idea of a resource aimed at that age group. The site has, um, multiple facets and that doesn't seem to be its most conspicuous facet, but I think it's still there, and I try to write with that audience at least partly in mind. Dpbsmith 09:54, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, you're cool :) (what he said, plus more) Human 22:55, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Billy Sunday

Tooting my own horn... Billy Sunday was on the requested articles list, so I wrote it, and I found the topic quite interesting and think the article came out well. Since you'd said you enjoyed Mother's Day, I thought I'd mention this one, too. Dpbsmith 08:00, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

Theory of evolution

If you want to help with the references, please write it and paste it in my talk page. I will improve the article with your name in the summary.

--User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 18:31, 22 June 2007 (EDT)


Please see: Engineer --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 09:24, 17 July 2007 (EDT)


Feminism has been unlocked. DanH 21:46, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

Invitation to join Wikiproject:News

Hsmom, since you have suggested grammar fixes to news items in the past, you are invited to sign up as a member of Wikiproject:News. [[Wikiproject:News/Guidelines|Review]] the Guidelines.
Your grammar suggestions have been very helpful. I think they would be more helpful if you made grammar fixes to the articles BEFORE they're posted to the Main page. --DeanStalk 17:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

May I just say...

...that I find all of your edits on Talk:Main Page to be absolutely lovely and helpful. They are probably the most informed, level-headed and intelligent suggestions and viewpoints I've seen on here for a while. Many of the tenets you seem to promote in your posts have gotten me blocked here many times, however, but keep up the good work:) Harbinger 13:13, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Scabies article & Plagiarism

I could be wrong, but wouldn't the CDC info. on health issues be considered public domain? There's no copyright information on the website as far as I can see, so it should be fine to copy the information word-for-word as long as it is noted that is how the information was obtained and a link provided to the CDC page. Jinxmchue 22:31, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Oh, yep. Here we go: Public domain: "Two examples of material in the public domain are United States government works (technically the copyright is held collectively by the American public)..." The CDC would fall under that. Jinxmchue 22:33, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

This covers other edits you have made (e.g. Tourette syndrome article). Jinxmchue 22:36, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

It was not at all clear in the article that the entire thing had been copied word-for-word from the CDC site. If you are quoting long sections of text, you need to show that with quotation marks or other formatting to make it clear which parts are quoted and which parts are original. While the CDC site was named as a source, it was not indicated that the CDC page had been lifted word-for-word. In addition, a good article will draw upon several sources. Also, just because a site doesn't have a copyright notation does not mean it is in the public domain (although I agree that government works are probably public domain). Bottom line - would you accept this kind of work from a student? I wouldn't. It's dishonest. --Hsmom 22:39, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I agree, but I think there is a better fix than simply removing the information completely. Seems like overkill. Jinxmchue 22:42, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
I'll see what I can do with them. I need a project anyway. Jinxmchue 22:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Well, the better fix would be to either quote the entire thing with proper attribution (which is still not ideal, IMHO), or re-write each of the articles. If you have time, go for it. I'm somewhat concerned, however, that there may be more medical articles that have been plagiarized. --Hsmom 22:48, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Take a look at the scabies article now. As long as the medical articles are categorized, it should be easy to check them all. Other than that, I don't know if there's a way to check which pages link to websites like the CDC. But like I said, I needed a project, so I'll do this. Cheers and God bless! Jinxmchue 23:00, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Hmmm. Taking the info from another site and rephrasing it sentence-by-sentence doesn't really improve things. It certainly wouldn't fly in a decent high school class. If the article includes only information from one other site, I think it's better to just go ahead and quote it, making it clear that it is quoted (by using quotation marks, etc.) and properly citing the source. Then it's clear that you are not trying to pass someone else's work off as your own. Ideally a minimum of information will be quoted, with the reader being encouraged to read the rest of the original information at the original source. You might enjoy this lovely article about plagarism.[1] --Hsmom 01:02, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
Do you think it'd be a good idea to create a template to flag articles suspected of (or known to be) plagiarism? Corry 23:12, 6 October 2008 (EDT)
Yes, after thinking about it a bit, I think that such a template would indeed be helpful. Of course, ideally the article would be fixed, but people don't always have the time to completely re-write an article when they notice it has been plagiarized, so using the template would be a quick option. I assume that would then generate a list of articles with suspected plagiarism? That would be useful too. --Hsmom 23:40, 6 October 2008 (EDT)


Thanks. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 09:32, 6 October 2008 (EDT)


This was placed in the reason line when you inserted the "fact" template in Elephant: Could we at least get a credible citation for this? 'Cause it's word-for-word from another site. Which would be plagiarism. Which is deceitful and morally wrong. I agree with you that plagarism is morally wrong, but I've also noticed you placed a lot of similar lines in articles that you've identified as plagarism without even telling us where they came from at all. If it is plagarism, show us the source so it can be removed. Karajou 10:33, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

In most of the cases I've found (and I'm beginning to suspect there are a horrifying number of plagiarized articles here), I've re-written the article to include the source, to provide proper attribution, and to minimize the amount of material lifted from any one source. In this particular case however, I Googled the sentence from the article and found an abundance of sites which included the sentence word-for-word. The first several sites I reviewed were not credible sources and thus were not appropriate to cite. I did not have time to review all of the potential sources and determine whether there was a credible one or not. I hope that whoever put this sentence in the article in the first place did indeed get it from a credible site - hopefully they have this article on their watchlist and will provide the source. If not, someone else will have to either find a source or remove the sentence. --Hsmom 10:50, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
If you see something that is plagarised, and it's clear that it is, immediately remove it. Go to the talk page, explain what you did and provide the source where it came from. The point I made above is that anyone just cannot say that such-and-such is plagarized without stating the source; all that would be is "my word against your's". If the article is public domain and has no attribution tag at the bottom or a statement such as "text incorporated from...", cite that on the talk page as well. Karajou 12:11, 7 October 2008 (EDT)
<edit conflict>Thanks - I'll try to promptly remove any plagiarism I find, and I'll be careful about noting the source in my edit comments. Frankly, I often don't have time to discuss each one in detail on the talk page - I've added the notes below that should cover most situations, and I'll try to make the edit comments clear. One question - what is to be done about images that have no information about their source? I've come across several articles with pictures taken from another site without attribution, but I'm not sure how to address this. Shouldn't all images include the source and some kind of statement as to their copyright status?--Hsmom 00:18, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
There are a few things here that you're possibly unaware of for the moment. The first thing is that all intellectual property created by indivuduals working directly for the U.S. government is public-domain; we can use them here as per this page: [3]. But they have to be attributed as to where it came from, and the tag below has to be used on the page with the main source placed within it. Another reason this public domain stuff is here (such as the several bird articles your deleted) is to provide a guide for the editor to make improvements and/or additions that are just not in the original.
Pictures must be treated the same way; all should have a licence tag on it; all must identify exactly who created it, the year it was created; who or what entity owns it, and whether or not it's public domain. Because we have so many images on the site it would not be possible to go through and check every one. What you could do is to go to the image talk page, find out who uploaded it, and remind that person that the copyright or other is in question and corrections need to be made. See Fair use for further details, and you can also go to user:Karajou/tag template for more examples.
Copyright Details
License: This work is in the Public Domain in the United States because it is a work of the United States Federal Government under the terms of Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 105 of the U.S. Code
Source: File available from the United States Federal Government [].

Here's some examples that I did with regard to some of your questions regarding proper attribution:

  • Photos that are public domain and/or U.S. Government: [4][5][6][7][8]
  • Articles from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, U.S. State Dept, Naval Historical Center: [9][10][11][12]

Thanks! I really like your templates - they are very nice. I will take a look at all of your examples, though it may take a few days to go through them. I have been here for a while but I am definitely still learning!

  • [13] - Unfortunately, I do have some concerns about this example. This article states at the bottom that "Article incorporates some text from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, a work in the public domain." Unfortunately, I don't think this is adequate. When you quote from another source, you need to indicate which text is quoted, either with quotation marks or by indenting the quoted text. (This is especially important in a wiki, because later editors need to know which text is quoted and which is not so they can edit accordingly.) You also need to include a reference tag - the statement at the bottom is a good one, but it should be put in reference format. If the source is on-line, and this one is, then you need to provide a link to the source - there is no link in this article to the source material. And ideally, you need to provide an in-text reference, like "According to the US Navy Historical Center's Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, ...". I also noticed that there is information about the picture on the source page that was not included on the Conservapedia picture page: "Grunion (SS-216), off Groton, Connecticut, 20 March 1942.", and "USN photo # N-0000X-001." I think it would be wise to note this on the picture page, so that users know as much as possible about the photo.

Government articles are a great place to look for basic information when you're writing a new article. However, an article that consists solely of several paragraphs of information taken word-for-word from another site is plagiarism, even if the source article is in the public domain. (Something can be plagiarism without being a copyright violation. Everything that is legal is not necessarily ethical.) When writing a new article, the best approach is to look at a variety of sources, and integrate the information (of course including citations) into an original article. It is more work, of course, and takes longer, but it results in a better article and avoids any problems with plagiarism. --Hsmom 16:15, 11 October 2008 (EDT)


If at all possible, can we have an expectation of you improving the articles after you remove the plagarism? You left this line in one: "According to the US Geological Survey, Double-crested Cormorants are seabirds." A line like that belongs in Dick and Jane, not here. Karajou 00:14, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Well, I didn't want to leave absolutely nothing on the page. I understand that it's annoying when what appeared to be a very nice article is removed. However, once discovered, we cannot let plagiarism remain. I honestly don't have the time (or the background) to research a large number of seabirds and write articles about them. I understand that the stub that I've left is not ideal. However, it is accurate and includes a reference, in-text attribution, and quotation marks around the quoted material, which is more than can be said for what was there before. I didn't plagiarize the article in the first place, and I'm afraid I can't take responsibility to undertake a total re--write. Hopefully another editor will have the time and knowledge to do so. --Hsmom 00:27, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
It's just a minor pet-peeve; I've hated Dick and Jane since the second grade! Karajou 00:36, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I think they're kind of cute! But I do know what you mean - you were probably reading way beyond the Dick and Jane level by second grade and they probably made you read it anyway! --Hsmom 16:15, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

About my Plagiarism Edits

Plagiarism is the act of passing someone else's work off as your own. It is deceitful and thus morally wrong. I have been finding many pages which include plagiarism. In some cases, I will not have the time and/or the expertise to re-write the article, nor will I have the time to provide a detailed explanation on the article's talk page. Nonetheless, plagiarism should be removed promptly. Since I won't have the space to provide details about plagiarism in my edit summaries, I am providing further information here. In general, I will deal with plagiarism I find by:

  • Removing the plagiarized material.
  • Including the apparent source of the material in my edit summary.
  • Including "see my talk page" in the edit summary (if there is room).

I consider the following situations to be plagiarism:

  • Material that has apparently been copied word-for-word from another site, without attribution of any kind.
  • Material that has apparently been copied word-for-word from another site, without quotation marks indicating which material is a direct quote. (Often, this includes articles which consist entirely of several paragraphs of information taken from a single source.)
  • Articles consisting solely of large amounts of text copied from a single source.
  • Material that has been paraphrased from another site without attribution.

Note that:

  • When you copy information word-for-word from another source, you need to both indicate which text is quoted (by using quotation marks or setting it off from the rest of the text in blockquote form) and provide a citation using reference tags. Ideally, you would also provide in-text attribution (e.g. "according to so-and-so").
  • A citation, quotation marks, and ideally in-text attribution need to be provided even if the document from which you are quoting is in the public domain. If you quote from a public-domain source, such as a US government agency's web site, you need to show where the quote came from. The reader needs to know where the information originally came from.
  • If you paraphrase information from another source, you still need to provide a citation. Obscuring the source of the information by paraphrasing is not an appropriate way to get around the need for citations.
  • Large sections of text should not be copied, even if a citation is provided and quotation marks are used. For example, it is not appropriate to create a Conservapedia article about a particular bird or animal by copying an entire article about the creature from another web site, even if you cite the web site as a source.

An online encyclopedia written as a wiki is not particularly useful if references are not cited. Students who use any wiki encyclopedia should not rely on it as a primary source for their work; at best it provides a starting point for further research. Because of this, it is especially important to cite sources. Students need to be able to follow up on what they read here, and to verify the information by reading the credible sources we provide. It is important for them to understand where the information came from - who did the study or wrote the opinion or what-have-you - so that they can bring into their understanding of the information any inherent bias or point of view the original authors may have. In addition, citing sources helps to minimize errors and helps readers to quickly identify information that may have changed or been updated since the article was written. --Hsmom 11:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Can I cut-and-paste a whole article from another site?
I believe that this would be unethical plagiarism. You can quote a snippet of information from another site - just be sure to include quotation marks (or set it apart from the text) to indicate which words are yours and which came from the other site, provide a reference (including site title, author, URL, and ideally date of retrieval), and ideally provide some in-text attribution. However, just putting quotation marks around the entire section does not make it ethical to copy large amounts of text from a single source. It is unethical to take an article written by someone else on another site (especially a commercial one), and copy the entire thing into an article here. When you do this, you are taking traffic away from the original site. On a commercial site, the author (or the site owner) makes an income from their writing via the ads on the site. The income is usually based on the number of pageviews and other site statistics. When you copy the entire article here, you eliminate the need for the reader to click through to the original site, thus depriving the author of appropriate compensation for their work. It's stealing, and the original author is losing income because of it. Even if the site is created by a government agency, and therefore is in the public domain, when you take traffic away from their web site, they lose pageviews, which ultimately could affect their funding and in turn the existence of the writers' jobs. Remember, the government agency is employing writers and in some cases photographers to actually create the content on their site. The appropriate way to use another author's material is to quote part of it, with a reference to the rest. You might say "Author Jane Smith, in her article This and Such, argues that "whatever the quote is". <ref>Jane Smith, ''This and Such'', retrieved 01/01/08 [URL]</ref> As a basic guideline, if you are cutting and pasting something without integrating the material into the existing article, then you are probably plagiarizing. --Hsmom 15:56, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Already noted

I refer you to this exchange by a troll and the founder of this website:
== Copied material? ==

With the sourcing of arthritis, arthralgia, etc... I am curious as to if this conflicts with the first Conservapedia commandment: # Everything you post must be true and verifiable. Do not copy from Wikipedia or elsewhere unless it was your original work.

While this appears to be in the public domain, what value does it have here besides pumping up the page count? These pages are often orphans - nothing linking to them, and no links from them. If this is just a start for more complete articles, do you think that the ongoing contest should be adjusted to make an improvement of existing articles worth more than creating another article that is similar in quality? The value of a wiki is in the interconnectivity of the articles - you go from one to another to another and browse and read rather than hitting on and ending there to do a new search. --Mtur 21:48, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

:We paid for work on government websites. It's ours already. It's not just public domain, but it is also bought and paid for by the public. So it's fine to copy unbiased material from such sites. Of course the entries can and should then be improved. But it helps having a start, and having a succinct explanation.--Aschlafly 22:16, 2 July 2007 (EDT)
Emphasis added
This was found here.
I'm posting this to save you trouble both by trying to find plagiarism of .gov websites and to avoid getting "in dutch" with the Owner. Marge

Paragraph quote

Is {{cquote}} template preferable to <blockquote>? --LiamG, 12:35, 11 October 2008

I am not an expert in wiki markup, nor am I well-versed in Conservapedia's style standards. I'm still learning, and I'm putting notes about what I learn on my user page, in part to remind myself how to do things. I think either of the two approaches are basically fine. Personally, I like the way cquote shows the big blue quotation marks, which make it very clear that the section is a quotation. Using blockquote will set the text apart, but you've got to include some words of attribution before the quote (which of course you should do with the cquote too). I think cquote is less confusing if multiple paragraphs are quoted, because it's clearer where the quote starts and ends. But again, I'm still learning, so there may be an even better approach out there! (I'll add how to blockquote to my list - thanks for the reminder.) --Hsmom 15:40, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
My personal view is that cquote should only be used to draw special attention to a particular quote rather than encapsulate a whole article. It tends to be overused in a lot of articles and to my mind makes the page look ugly. Normal quotes are fine in the vast majority of cases. BrianCo 17:09, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
Maybe we should for this to be addressed in the "Manual of Style"? LiamG 17:16, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
BrianCo - I agree that a quote of a sentence or two doesn't need the fancy style of the cquote markup. Like you said, normal quotes are fine in the vast majority of cases. Longer quotations should of course be used sparingly; in my opinion only when they are really significant, in which case the cquote markup would be OK, I think. Certainly it should be the rare case that an entire article would be a quote from a single source! --Hsmom 20:01, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

surface mining

Hi, I wrote a new short article and referenced it to a mining website. If you have time please have a look. surface mine Markr 18:04, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

copying from US Gov sites

Hsmom, we own material on US government sites. We paid for it as taxpayers, and it is public domain. Word-for-word copying from them is perfectly acceptable. Thanks and Godspeed.--Aschlafly 18:07, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

Aschlafly, it is acceptable if it is properly indicated as a quotation and cited, right? Otherwise, aren't we being deceitful by presenting someone else's work as our own? And copying so much of a single site, word-for-word, page after page, even including the pictures, without indicating that it is quoted directly from another site, and without adding any of the Conservapedia editor's own words, seems dishonest to me. It may be legal, if the material is in the public domain, but it still seems unethical to me. I'm uncomfortable with encouraging students to do this kind of copying, when instead they could read several sites on a particular subject and then create their own nice little article about it. It takes a bit more time, of course, but not much, and they learn so much more from doing it. --Hsmom 18:25, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
By the way, I think you made an excellent point the other day in the Trainspotting discussion, but I haven't had a chance to mention it yet! Weekend laundry is taking up my time! --Hsmom 18:28, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
Thanks for your Trainspotting feedback, and I certainly recognize the demands of laundry and other chores that need to be done!
As to copying from US government sites, I appreciate your point of view. I would have said the same thing a few years ago. But now I'm uncomfortable with any view of US government work that is other than the fact that we, as taxpayers, own it and paid for it. No attribution is required for that. If we hired and paid someone to write something for us, we would not have to attribute the work to him. Ditto for US govt. works. Indeed, I even filed a law brief once opposing an attempt by someone to prevent copying of a legal requirement. We own laws, we own court opinions, and we own US govt works. (Students aren't graded on this copying, by the way.)--Aschlafly 19:15, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
"We, as taxpayers, own it and paid for it." Do you mean that the taxpayers own the material, or that everyone owns the material because the 'taxpayers' have presented it as a gift? Could I, as an American, copy and paste British government materials without citation?--Brossa 20:42, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
Following this logic, Andy, would you approve of articles in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons using CDC statistics and information from NIH-funded research without proper citation? I doubt it. Just because something does not violate copyright law doesn't make it not plagiarism. Corry 23:11, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
The situation is not as simple as that, Andy. You as American taxpayers paid for it; I as an Australian did not. Because it's in the public domain, I can legally use it, but I can't say that I paid for it. So that means two different rules depending on what nationality we are. Conservapedia itself is based in America, but its contributors are not all American, so given that Conservapedia articles are a joint effort by both Americans and non-Americans, where does that leave the principle of "we paid for it, so we own it"? It's more like "some of us paid for it, so some of us own it, but without going through the history of who added what, one would not know if it was written by someone who 'owned' it or not". (Of course that doesn't affect the legal situation, but it does affect the ethical aspect.)
If we hired and paid someone to ghost-write an autobiography, for example, then although the hired writer does most of the work, we have the final say and it reflects what we want. But if we hire and pay someone to write something that is their words, then it is unethical to claim it as our own. It should be obvious which case U.S. Government publications are most like. When we own the copyright of someone else's written work, that does not include the author's natural rights to have his name on it.
And then we have Commandment 2 that says that all copied works must be attributed. And that's much simpler than having different rules for different nationalities.
Philip J. Rayment 09:19, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Also, if this is still an educational project, not expecting students to learn how to properly cite references is missing a huge educational opportunity, not to mention risking teaching behavior that would get them in serious trouble (and rightfully so) in any university. Corry 11:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Corry - also, how to research. I think just "copy paste" doesn't require that the student read what he is writing. My teachers are old fashioned, and make us use real books most of the time, grins, cause we actually have to type out what we are "copying" (making us do lots less of it, I think). The intent of a article should be that you've read several sites and you state in your own words, what you've learned. That's the heart of both good research and good writing, isn't it?--JeanJacques 12:22, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, that's true, JeanJacques. However, some people do not have that talent, and having gov sites to copy from is very helpful to improving this site. ~BethTalk2ME 15:21, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

This is an important skill that goes beyond just research- using different sources to synthesize a viewpoint. This is a skill that some may lack, and that is exactly why it must be practiced.
Does anybody else feel that we should make a debate page for this? This is important, and I feel like we should move off of Hsmom's talk page. Corry 16:29, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Bethany, whilst government sites might well offer useful information which is readily available, simply copying and pasting it is of no use to the person doing the pasting. I remember seeing Aschlafly write "don't read a book, write a book" somewhere and although I am not sure what you are supposed to write about if you have not read about it, the same principal applies to editing a wiki. Simply pasting in somebody else's work is not only lazy, but also unethical, if the original author is not credited, even if it is a government, or public domain, site. To be fair, you would not like it if you found out I had taken something you had written and posted it under my name, would you?
Besides, the beauty (and half the fun) of editing a wiki is doing the research. I am neither American, nor do I know a great deal about the finer elements of American history, but I was able to put together an article on Thomas E. Dewey (who, admittedly, I thought created the Dewey decimal system, which is why I looked him up in the first place) and I learnt a great deal from doing that. It is probably not a great article on him and equally true, there are people who might lack the skill to research and write an article, but what better way to learn that skill than by trying it - and beauty number two of a wiki is even if they do struggle with their early attempts, there are editors on here who will be able to improve their entries and offer guidance.
But to simply copy and paste for the sake of copying and pasting should be frowned on, more so if it is unattributed - regardless of the source. (Unfortunately, it only takes a quick look through some of the entries in the Dictionary category, to see just what a horror story blindly copying and pasting entires can precipitate.) --KotomiTKonnichiha! 17:06, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
Bethany - writing a good article is not a talent, it is a skill that can be learned. Any student who intends to go to college, or to have a white-collar job, or to homeschool their own children, or to help their children prepare for college, should take the time to learn this skill. It comes harder to some than to others, but it is well worth the time it takes to learn. Not only will it make you a better writer, it will make you a more critical reader - you'll be better at asking "where does this information come from" and "who expressed this opinion" and "is this a credible source" - all important skills for any good citizen. Like KotomiT said, a wiki is a great place to learn, because there are lots of other people who can improve your article once you write it, and you can learn by observing the changes they make. Simply copying and pasting test from another site is pointless. It creates another article here, sure, but waters down the quality of the articles and devalues the site's reputation. It's no good to proudly say Conservapedia has such and such number of articles, if you've given the opposition reason to say "yeah, but many of them are just copied from somewhere else". And worse - if you've copied material from other sources without indicating that it is quoted material and where it came from, then you are opening yourself and Conservapedia up for accusations of plagiarism. I can see Aschlafly's point about US citizens owning government-generated material, but frankly I feel that the majority of college-educated people would consider it plagiarism regardless, and once you've been labeled a plagiarist, that label is almost impossible to get rid of.
Bethany, I encourage you to try to write an article yourself. Pick a topic you know something about. Nothing too broad like "The Revolutionary War" - something more specific, like a particular animal, or a favorite hobby like Irish dancing. Read a few books or magazine articles about it. You don't have to read an entire book - maybe you can find a book that has a few pages about your topic. A librarian can be very helpful with this. Then put the books aside and think about what you think are the most important nuggets of information. Write a phrase about each one on a strip of paper. Now think about how to arrange them - what order makes sense? Move the papers around until you like the order. Now write a sentence or two about each phrase. When you've done this, you've got the body of your article. Write a brief introduction, and perhaps a concluding sentence, and the text is done. Now go back and think about where the facts came from. Put in your references, and you're done! The first one you do may be hard, but you'll get better with practice. You'll get much more satisfaction from writing your own article than from copying someone else's words. And you'll make a much more valued contribution to Conservapedia. It's not the number of articles that's important, it's the quality - and I have confidence that you can write a good article once you've had a bit of practice. --Hsmom 10:31, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

Thank You

...for the compliments here. It is nice to see someone who agrees with me and is willing to support their ideas. ~BethTalk2ME 14:01, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Disability article

Hi, I created a Disability article from wanted pages. I am afraid its a bit of a pigs breakfast though. If you have time could you give it a look ? I really appreciate it. I have more to add , mainly specific disabilities and links for them. Markr 23:28, 18 November 2008 (EST)

1000 edits

Congrats. Can I be nosy and ask how you count? --JeanJacques 23:36, 18 November 2008 (EST)

Sure! When I click on "my preferences" at the top of the page, it tells me. --Hsmom 23:38, 18 November 2008 (EST)
Ah, I have a long way to go to reach your status. You can be a roll model (actually, you are for when I disagree with someone, and want to say so, but do not want to be petty and argumentative over it. Thanks for that, by the way).--JeanJacques 23:44, 18 November 2008 (EST)


Hi, mom! Nice work here. --Ed Poor Talk 16:09, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks! Gotta get some sewing done now though... --Hsmom 16:11, 22 November 2008 (EST)


I looked up the wikicode for underline. It's <u>your text here</u>. Hope that helps. Keep up the excellent work.

Thanks JohnD! I love learning new wiki code! Will put it to work right away!--Hsmom 10:28, 1 December 2008 (EST)

United States Department of Agriculture Terms

Via random page, I stumbled on Ridge roughness, and changed it to this version: Ridge roughness. Then, I looked at some of the other articles on Argiculture Terms: All of them seem to be outrageously mindless copy & paste jobs from the reference, i.e., USDA glossary. What to do? Frankly, any student looking for these terms were better of visiting the site of the USDA. But as the articles exist on this site, should I try to model them into the one I've done first? You seem to be a kind of expert on these things, so I'd love to get some input from you. --BRichtigen 10:19, 16 December 2008 (EST)

BRichtigen, I'm afraid I don't know. There are quite a few examples of this type of thing, and I agree with you that the reader is better off with the original site, at least as things stand now. You did an excellent job of improving Ridge roughness, but what a lot of work it would be to do all of them! And I'm always wary of an article written by someone who knows little or nothing about the subject at hand. (Not, of course, implying that this is the case with you, but it has often been the case with me in these situations.) Ridge roughness at least won't hurt anyone - it's the unsourced cut-and-paste medical articles that scare me. I've taken the liberty of adding quotations marks and a {{stub}} template to Ridge roughness. At least with a stub template it goes on the list of articles that need to be nurtured. --Hsmom 23:41, 16 December 2008 (EST)
Thank you for your answer! No, I'd never heard the term Ridge roughness before, but I don't think that I can change these articles to the worse ;-) I share your concerns about the medical articles, it would nice to have a couple of M.D.s to look after them. --BRichtigen 22:03, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Cleaning up the vaccine article

Thanks for cleaning up my section. I have to leave things alone for a day to be able to see my grammatical and stylistic errors. ArnoldFriend 21:36, 28 January 2009 (EST)

You're welcome! I enjoy copy editing. I know what you mean about leaving things alone. One high school teacher I had suggested we plan our writing projects to include a day of leaving the draft in a drawer for 24 hours so we could look at it with fresh eyes later. (Of course, that was back in the dark ages when the draft was written in pencil on lined paper!) --Hsmom 10:02, 29 January 2009 (EST)

Homosexual misinterpretation

Thanks for your edit, even if it was "its" over "it's". Find and fix more of such things if you want. But please do not change content before discussing it. But can anyone tell me why I am often locked out for 24hrs after I make edits to this page, in which I have been the only contributor? I emailed but rcvd no response. Thanks --21:12, 7 February 2009 Daniel1212

Thanks, Daniel1212, I enjoy editing for grammar, spelling, and readability. You should be aware, thought, that here at CP, most changes are made without discussion first; Conservapedia frowns on too much talk, so you should expect changes to the content will be made. If you object to the change, then you can begin a discussion on the talk page. As to being locked out, I'm afraid I have no idea - I don't deal with that side of things here. --Hsmom 09:58, 9 February 2009 (EST)


Way to go Hsmom! Your highly credible additions deserve much praise. A+ --jpatt 14:05, 8 February 2009 (EST)

Thanks jpatt, that means a lot to me! And I find your work here fascinating! --Hsmom 10:01, 9 February 2009 (EST)

...And Thank You in Return

I appreciate the kind words. I know I don't represent the preferred point of view on CP, but I believe in the importance of understanding the various sides of issues even when you're firmly behind just one of them. If both the conservative and non-conservative sides of an issue have their supporting arguments presented in a fair, reasoned manner and the conservative position is still preferred, then people can have the satisfaction of knowing that it was based on the merits of the argument, and not just because they've only been given one side of the issue to consider.

Hopefully my contributions here will encourage more people to engage those with different opinions instead of dismissing them. Debating issues respectfully with others is not the "someone must win and someone must lose" battle some people regard it as - it can also just be a way for active, curious minds to get some exercise, and maybe learn something new from others in the process.

I've admired how you put a lot of thought and research into your positions, and respect your work here greatly. You're definitely the kind of person who should be considered for promotion to sysop the next time that comes up. --DinsdaleP 15:50, 8 February 2009 (EST)


If you check your email in-box for your account here, I have responded to your courteous and thoughtful message. --₮K/Admin/Talk 16:08, 4 March 2009 (EST)

TK, I never got your email. Can you re-send it? I miss DinsdaleP's thoughtful input. Thanks. --Hsmom 21:23, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
Ahhh, I see. You need to check your Spam, as that is where many emails sent through the wiki to me end up. I have just re-sent it...please let me know if you get it, or alternatively, use the contact info on my user page, and email me, and I will send back direct to you. --₮K/Admin/Talk 22:32, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
TK, I didn't get your second email either - looked in my spam folder and so on, but no sign of it. As an experiment, I sent an email to myself (not through CP), and it went through just fine. Then I sent an email to myself through CP, and it didn't go through, nor did the copy that CP was supposed to send to me of the email I sent (if you see what I mean). So it looks like there's something up with CP's processing of my emails. I'll try to email you through CP, but if that doesn't work it looks like we're out of luck. --Hsmom 13:04, 10 March 2009 (EDT)
There is no anonymity emailing through CP. When you send through it, your email address given in preferences is shown, and the user responding, their email shows to the person getting it. Just send to me using the email given at the top of my user page, if you will. I have received this day three emails from editors, and it was working fine for them, and the only problem I have ever had with it is Outlook marking some as Spam / Junk Mail, as I noted. Thanks. --₮K/Admin/Talk 15:16, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

Hsmom, have you checked your e-mail address in your preferences? If you are not getting even the copy you send from Conservapedia, it suggests to me that your e-mail address is recorded incorrectly. Philip J. Rayment 05:15, 14 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Brilliant supposition, PJR. Thanks! Hopefully Hsmom will check it out, and let us know. --₮K/Admin/Talk 22:23, 14 March 2009 (EDT)
PJR, thanks for the suggestion. That was actually my first thought, so when I sent an email outside of CP I copied the address directly from my CP preferences page, and it worked outside of CP, but like I said it didn't work through CP. Never mind, I really don't need to communicate privately with anyone, so it's not worth trying to figure it out now; maybe I'll work on it when I'm less busy. I've removed the email address from my preferences for now so no one thinks I'm ignoring their emails! I miss DinsdaleP; even though his views were often liberal, he was quite thoughtful and polite and good with research, but it looks like, whatever the reason, he's gone for good. --Hsmom 22:49, 14 March 2009 (EDT)
Strange. I've never had any problems with it myself. I've sent e-mails via this method to a number of other people (including copies to me), and many have sent me e-mails this way. Then again, I've known of other administrators who've claimed to have problems with it. Perhaps it's something about the e-mail address itself that Conservapedia doesn't like. The only thing I can suggest is trying a different e-mail address if you have a different one, and see if that works.
It does explain, however, why you "ignored" my e-mail to you. But then my e-mail didn't require a response, so I didn't actually assume that you'd ignored it!
Philip J. Rayment 02:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
Well, I have at least made a good-faith attempt, Hsmom. In this situation, like all of life's experiences, it has been a learning experience, and that is never a bad thing. It is always a pity when someone's own reckless actions deprives their fellow editors of their insights. I miss him too. Good luck to you. --₮K/Admin/Talk 05:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
PJR, I would never ignore an email from you! Sorry that it looked that way. I wonder now how many I've missed from other people. I think you might be right that CP may not like my email, or perhaps my ISP doesn't like CP, though that seems unlikely. --Hsmom 00:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
TK, thanks for your attempts and suggestions! I do appreciate your efforts. Perhaps I'll take another stab at it when things are a bit slower at home. --Hsmom 00:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

WP Content

Good catch!--Jpatt 23:14, 26 May 2009 (EDT)


Great addition of "goth" to Essay:Best New Conservative Words!--Andy Schlafly 22:00, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

Thanks, I enjoyed researching that one! --Hsmom 10:35, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

Minor Grammar Issues

The various manual of styles, used by the major news organizations, vary perhaps as to what you believe to be correct grammar, Hsmom. Although you could have missed several dozen of my posts about the "In The News" section over the past few years, let me repeat it here for you.

In The News is intended to be a thought-provoking, often very direct, section bringing news and points of view that our users might not find in the mainstream media. It is not intended to offer encyclopedic articles or even our POV all of the time.

The blurbs are taken from the actual sources, and offered as unchanged as possible. --ṬK/Admin/Talk 16:01, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

It's nice to see that you are editing again

It's nice to see that you are editing again! I hope you had a nice Mother's Day. conservative 01:09, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
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