Debate:What does Christianity say about homosexuality?

New Testament for homosexuality is literally "a sodomite". Trying to define what the term "sodomite" means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy")

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

Seriously on that last sentence? I've yet to see a Bible that uses the phrase "homosexual". Pretty recent word IMO, certainly not in any Bible I've read.--Fingermouse 23:04, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

That's 1 Cor 6:9. NET and WEB use homosexual. Rotherham uses Sodomite. It seems to be missing from my version of the Vulgate. All other versions I have use some construction of "men who abuse themselves with men." Shouldn't this be a Discussion or Debate?--All Fish Welcome 02:50, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

--NET and WEB are new versions of the bible which have undergone many translations and transformations. If you look at the King James Bible - accepted all over the world as the most accurate, the "Authorised Version" - you'll see it's not about homosexuality at all. It says "nor abusers of themselves with mankind". So don't accept the word of people who just decide for themselves that's what an ambiguous verse is about, twisting words until they are unrecognisable like so many preachers do. And they do. Proof of that is in the existence of countless different kinds of Christianity.

Whats with that one that calls fornicators sinners? I still fail to understand why sex in marriage is ok and sex out of it isn't. Adultery is wrong yes, but just fornicating? Bolly Ottihw 18:09, 22 April 2007

Fornication covers far more than just sex outside marriage. My KJV dictionary describes it as "sexual immorality," which, as you can imagine, covers a wide array of behaviors, many of which hadn't even been invented when the Bible was compiled. (Likewise, certain behaviors considered immoral then may be moral today; but let's not go there.)

For the sake of argument, let's accept sex outside of marriage = fornication. Imagine a child born out of wedlock in an ancient, tribe-based society. Imagine trying to determine the rights and obligations of all parties involved, to include care of the child, inheritance, legal lineage, etc. Back then, it was much easier just to restrict who is having sex with whom. Today, we have the benefits of contraception, paternity testing, etc., so it's not as big a deal. But there is always a counterexample to make us think that maybe the ancients were on to something (see: DannieLynn Stern/Birkhead/Whoever).--All Fish Welcome 04:34, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

As I understand it, the Bible says plenty against homosexual sex out of the context of a relationship, but the only comment it makes about a loving homosexual relationship is between David and Jonathan, which is even said to be better than that of a man and a woman: "my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women" (2 Samuel 1:26, King James). They formalised the relationship: "Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle." (1 Samuel 18:3-4, King James). I thought with so many negative quotes from the Bible on this page, it might be refreshing to have a positive loving one :-) Proberts84 18:01, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Wrong David and Jonathan were not homosexual. Take this as a block warning. --CPAdmin1 18:04, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Well, the quotes check out (though they may be out of context). We don't block for ideological reasons, according to your awesome proposed block policy, CPA1. --Hojimachong^talk 18:06, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

OK, no block warning. --CPAdmin1 18:07, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Sorry - didn't realise I was near a nerve. I'll back up slightly. I will say though that the view that they were homosexual seems to me no less conservative than that they were not - it has been believed by many for centuries (e.g. "indeed I do remember to have heard that one man so loved another. Jonathan cherished David, Achilles loved Patroclus", Life of Edward II, 1326 AD).

Dont worry, you will be had, sooner or later I am sure. I mean, check out the link related to Schlafly on wikipedia and provide them here and you will see how quickly you will be BLOCKED. Oh yes, that most Reverend Haggard also, not a peep about that man here nor will we ever see any mention. Ah yes, Our Vice President and how angry he got when CNN Wolf Blitzer started down the road about his daughter. So, watch out, big brother IS watching and WILL stop you when they find anything they deem objectionable (Oh yea, the reasons will not be what you think they are or what they state

I don't know whether we can say categorically that they were not homosexual, but I do admit there is a grey area. The key word seems to me to be 'ahabah', which is the Hebrew word in the text for the love that they shared. It is the same word as between Jacob and Rachel (Gen 29:20). It also features between a man and a woman in Pro 5:19 and 2Sa 13:15. It is also used often to describe God's love for his people.

The argument that their relationship could be political does not to me seem very credible as all of their covenants were made in private. Although David was married to many women, the Bible never states that he loved them, only that one of them loved him. In fact, when he learns of Jonathan's death, he states that his love for him was greater than that of women (as quoted above). What is the argument that they categorically were not homosexual? Proberts84 17:31, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

P.S. the quotes were only out of context as it would be a little counterproductive for me to paste the entire passages here. I gave references so that they could be read in context which, I believe, supports my point.

yeah your totally out of context...it would depend on your definition of love..does that ALWAYS include sex? IF you Love God even more then a women, does that mean you had sex with God? does "1 Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. " mean God had sex with us? That verse you so need to be homosexual is talking about a brotherly love greater then love between a husband and a wife.--Wally 13:32, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Please, guys, get over it! Read another book. The bible is - er - out of date and was written by a bunch of chaps who were not exactly up-to-the-minute. Anyone who says being gay is wrong is immoral. Anyone who says that sex is wrong is immoral. We must find other codes to live by, beyond those outlined in the bible, which is a book completely irrelevant apart from some cultural and literary interest. The bible is wrong. It is not the word of god. God does not exist, except in the minds of the emotionally depleted and the intellectually feeble. Is this clear?

much love and best wishes

chris larner

The Church discourages it and in some cases it is condemned and forbidden. Like marriage = A man + a woman only. --Dark1Kristen 23:54, 22 July 2007 (EDT)

I believe Christian teaching is that all homosexuals should be put to death. (LEV 20:13) ----Charlesincharge --Charlesincharge 01:10, 25 July 2007 (EDT) (Sorry, forgot to sign)

You may wish it were so Charles, but it does not make it true. Christianity is about mercy and recognizing that all have sinned and are in need of forgiveness. If you have a desire to argue the point, you may wish to log onto a jewish wiki or a jewish website and see their views as they do not believe in the New Testament message and give a prominence to the Torah that is often lacking in Christian circles. As I have been active in different debate forums and come across many "Charles" in my life, I already know that you have no desire to do so -- your barbs are aimed at Christianity specifically, not the originators of the scriptures. Learn together 01:30, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

Allow me to rephrase... In the Bible, it states that homosexuals should be put to death: Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them."

--Charlesincharge 03:42, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

Yes it does, but let's be clear. The difference between Judaism and Christianity is the New Testament. In Paul's writings, in the New Testament, he let us know that under the law ALL are condemned. (The section of the Bible you are quoting from is the law.) General Christian theology is that first came grace, then came the law. We live under grace. The law is there to make you realize you can't fulfill it, and you need a savior. And, just in case you're thinking it, does that mean we are free to go out and sin? Paul brings that up too - no. We live for Christ, but just because we miss the mark doesn't mean we put people to death.

That's the Christian view. Now you've quoted from the section of the Bible that is most holy to Jews (some Jews believe that only the first 5 books of the Bible are the inerrant word of God, the rest is fallible), so really your concern is with Judaism. But that being said, ancient Jewish writings do not show this being enforced either. For a system of belief that most follows the literal punishment of the laws, you may wish to turn to Islam where some practices are still in effect today. Learn together 12:40, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

What exctly is wrong about a man loving a man ? Tieum512 07:12, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Paul's Letter To The Corinthians

Dear Corinthians,

Wish you were here.

Love,

Paul

P.S. Watch out for them poofs, aye.

P.P.S. Just kidding, everyone. Underscoreb 22:03, 12 November 2007 (EST)