Difference between revisions of "Conservapedia:Discussion page - technical help"

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2.  In order to differentiate messages from various users please use a colon or mutiple colons to indent messages when necessary. The more colons you use the farther your message will indent.
 
2.  In order to differentiate messages from various users please use a colon or mutiple colons to indent messages when necessary. The more colons you use the farther your message will indent.
  
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Below is actual sample of discussion for a discussion page taken from [[Talk:Ronald Reagan]]:
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Below is sample of discussion page dialogue:
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:: Well, no.  It isn't obvious that Reagan deserves credit.  One hypothesis is that Reagans presence in the White House played a significant role in the eventual fall of the Soviet Union.  But you would have to test that against a counter hypothesis that the Soviet Union would have ended roughly at the same time and in the same manner if Reagan had not been president.  Of course we can't revert history and control for that factor so any argument regarding causation is tenuous at best.  However, there is a whole body of research looking at multiple explanations for the end of the Cold War and most of this research looks at mult-causal explanations.  Social scientists generally are wary of monocausal explanations and especially monocausal explanations that single out any one individual.  It is for this reason that the Reagan hypothesis is largely rejected--it has little to do with Reagan himself, but mostly to do with the complex nature of large-scale political processes.  That isn't to say that Reagan and his policies weren't an important variable, it is just not certain whether he holds the most explanatory power.--[[User:Jack|Jack]] 03:47, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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:::Well Jack, we have cites to demonstrate Reagans Defense spending in the early 80s virtually spent the Soviet Union out of existence, because they could not keep up.  Gorbachav has virtually admitted as much.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:39, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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::::I have cites that say Reagan's spending extended the length of the Soviet Union's existence, I have cites that say internal social movements in the Eastern Bloc ended the Soviet Union, I have cites that the Peace movement in the United States was what brought about the changes in Reagan's attitude change that led to his willingness to open up negotiation space.  However, I wouldn't make the claim that any of these provide the strongest explanatory power.  Having cites doesn't confirm or disconfirm anything, it only provides one plausible explanation for an event.  Selective citing is just as biased as no citing at all and, in fact, is more academically dishonest.--[[User:Jack|Jack]] 00:15, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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:::::Well, when I say I have cites, I don't mean it in the common Wikipedia sense of WP:V that any lie anybody told somewhere so long as it got in print is a valid citation.  Not at all.  I'm refering to a credible witness who has been properly vetted to stand up against cross examination.  And I wouldn't make the reference if it were not so.  Junk science, for example, does not qualify as a cite.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:26, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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::::::Neither do passing observations. And people who are directly involved in an event will sometimes hold the most biased explanation for how that event happened.  (By the way how does someone virtually admit as much?) Especially when you are talking about huge sociopolitical changes.  Behavior is complicated, especially political behavior and, like I said before, monocausal explanations are generally weak.--[[User:Jack|Jack]] 00:40, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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:::::::That Soviet Communism was pathologically ill and doomed to an end sooner or later there's no question; indeeed, Ronald Reagan may have been the only guy in America who saw that & believed it in 1980.  And he certainly hastened it's demise.  What's more, many who opposed him, actively sought to prop up the existing status quo.  And here the Nuke Freeze Movement suspects we can cite in particular.  If they had their way, the Soviet Union would still exist and all the Nuclear weapons would still be '''frozen''', intact.  They cannot pretend now that they did not take those positions, or hold those views, then.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 01:19, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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::::::::: I think you would enjoy reading the book the Reagan Reversal by Betsey Lamb (I think).  It is very favorable to Reagan but does a good job breaking through some of the myths about him that are propogated by both the left and the right.  BTW, Ronald Reagan wasn't the only one to recognize that in 1980 and his policies after 1983 were in many ways more in line with the Freeze movement than it was with the Arms hawks.--[[User:Jack|Jack]] 12:45, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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:::::::::: On that question, the Reykjavik summit is key; while widely reported as a failure, it really was the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union, and the begining of the cooperative agreements that came later.  Gorby basically was begging for an opportunity for Soviet institutions to survive through perestroika, and when he walked out, he knew it was the end of the Soviet Union.  The Jackson Hole signing between Baker & Shevardnadze was the death warrant.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:04, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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*I will find you the sourcing, Rob...but Reykjavik was a calculated gamble, quite deliberate on Reagan's part. Besides, he said when home, he had a terrible sinus and was testy.  ;-) --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] <sup>[[User_talk:TK|Talk2Me!]]</sup> 19:12, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
 
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:Gorby came to Reykjavik holding absolutely no cards.  Unlike Khurschev's bravado, all Gorby could do was plead for time to let Perestroika work, cause everyone knew if 100% of the Soviet economy had been shifted to defense spending, it ''still'' could not compete with Reagans defense build-up and next genreation Stars Wars etc.  When Gorby walked out, he knew it was the end of the Soviet Union.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 19:30, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
 

Revision as of 00:04, April 1, 2007

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