Difference between revisions of "Debate:Does God punish sinners for eternity?"
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==Yes== | ==Yes== | ||
Jesus Christ will be our judge and if you read the Bible at all then you will know that Hell is for eternity. And there is no once saved always saved. you can fall from grace as many have. | Jesus Christ will be our judge and if you read the Bible at all then you will know that Hell is for eternity. And there is no once saved always saved. you can fall from grace as many have. | ||
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| + | I disagree with BOTH of the current posts. First of all, the Elect are "once saved, always saved". They would not be truly saved if they fell from grace. Second, I am entirely unable to tolerate to any degree those who claim that all will be saved - the ones who answer "No" to this question. Citing the ultimate and infallible truth, the holy and inspired Word of God, Matthew 25:41 says "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels". It does not say, "Depart from me, those who sinned even though I love them, into temporary fire", but "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire". Finally, this seems to indicate that one can choose to believe in God. This belief is very common, very heretical, and eliminates the need for a savior. The Elect alone will be saved, as indicated by Ephesians. Some claim that Romans contradicts this, but the Bible clearly says "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9. We are enabled to believe in Christ through faith in him which is given us by God's saving grace. If Christ needs us to choose him of our own accord then we are all lost eternally. --[[User:Lorr|Lorr]] 12:38, 11 January 2011 (EST) | ||
==No== | ==No== | ||
Revision as of 17:38, January 11, 2011
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Yes
Jesus Christ will be our judge and if you read the Bible at all then you will know that Hell is for eternity. And there is no once saved always saved. you can fall from grace as many have.
I disagree with BOTH of the current posts. First of all, the Elect are "once saved, always saved". They would not be truly saved if they fell from grace. Second, I am entirely unable to tolerate to any degree those who claim that all will be saved - the ones who answer "No" to this question. Citing the ultimate and infallible truth, the holy and inspired Word of God, Matthew 25:41 says "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels". It does not say, "Depart from me, those who sinned even though I love them, into temporary fire", but "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire". Finally, this seems to indicate that one can choose to believe in God. This belief is very common, very heretical, and eliminates the need for a savior. The Elect alone will be saved, as indicated by Ephesians. Some claim that Romans contradicts this, but the Bible clearly says "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9. We are enabled to believe in Christ through faith in him which is given us by God's saving grace. If Christ needs us to choose him of our own accord then we are all lost eternally. --Lorr 12:38, 11 January 2011 (EST)
No
God doesn't punish sinners at all. And Hell is not permanent. It is Satan who is the accuser of the brethren, not God. God is all about love and forgiveness.
However, there is a difference between right and wrong. And we do reap what we sow. If we are selfish, we will suffer the consequences. In particular, homosexual acts are very selfish. There is no true love - in a conjugal sense - other than between a man and his wife.
It is sometimes argued that homosexuality couldn't be a sin: "Would God consign his children to an eternity of punishment in hell for loving another man?" This question presupposes that any punishment (or harsh consequences) of sin comes from God. Yet the Bible says, "The wages of sin is death" without saying who the paymaster is! The question also confuses love (which is a good thing, in general) with homosexual fornication which is a sin.
All this confusion can be cleared up if a person genuinely wants to know (1) Does God exist? (2) Does God love me? and (3) What is the best way to lead my life? --Ed Poor Talk 16:13, 18 June 2009 (EDT)
- Well, we are all sinners. The questions should be stated, Does God punish the evildoers for eternity? Matthew 25:45-46 Jesus says, "I assure you, when you refused to help the least of these my Brothers and Sisters, you were refusing to help me. And they will go away into Eternal Punishment, but the Righteous will go into Eternal Life."
- But the questions remains "Does God punish?" No, God doesn't punish. By being cast out of the eternal life of Heaven (through mans own fault), the devil punishes those who end up in Hell. For the devil hates man, made in the likeness of God.--Jpatt 17:44, 19 June 2009 (EDT)
"God is all about love and forgiveness"??
No, He is NOT. This is what social gospel preaches, but not from the bible. God is about love and forgiveness, but He is also holy and just (a not PC view in this post modern culture, and sadly some churches purposely ignore this part, afraid saying God is holy and just, and all people are sinners, will offend people).
Because He is holy and just, He MUST punish EVERY sin. Some will even say that it is because He is love, so He cannot left injustice unaccounted for.(Kmcheng 18:03, 30 March 2010 (EDT))
Yes that's true, but God also loves every person and if they repent then he does not punish them. The fable "The Last Judgement" by Carel Kapek is very helpful to understand one theory about the trials of sinners.