Difference between revisions of "Talk:American hero"
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::::::::::::You are right that God will judge all of us with the same criteria in the end, but the status of hero is a worldly title which should be applied to men. Women can be heroines if they maintain their traditional roles and I strongly support having an article on this topic, but it should be seperate. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 23:45, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ::::::::::::You are right that God will judge all of us with the same criteria in the end, but the status of hero is a worldly title which should be applied to men. Women can be heroines if they maintain their traditional roles and I strongly support having an article on this topic, but it should be seperate. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 23:45, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
:::::::::::::And based on the number of edits that added woman in after you said "I see no woman", people disagree with you Craig :/--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:47, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | :::::::::::::And based on the number of edits that added woman in after you said "I see no woman", people disagree with you Craig :/--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:47, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
| − | :::::::::::::I'm sure many liberals would disagree with me, that just makes me more assured in my position. However I prayed for a moment and actually came up with a compromise that would work for both of us. How about we have one article called [[American heroism]] and have two sections one called "Heroes" and one called " | + | :::::::::::::I'm sure many liberals would disagree with me, that just makes me more assured in my position. However I prayed for a moment and actually came up with a compromise that would work for both of us. How about we have one article called [[American heroism]] and have two sections one called "Heroes" and one called "Heroines" it isn't how I would do it if I was in charge, but compromise is ok as long as it isn't your core principles. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 23:50, 29 August 2011 (EDT) |
| + | ::::::::::::::Be careful with that word, Liberal, using it against people who disagree with you is a very quick way to ruin your standing. And sure, i'll go for that. I'm not a big conflict person :/--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:54, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
| + | :::::::::::::::Great! I don't like arguing with you. But I'm going to continue to call a spade a spade. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 23:56, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
| + | ::::::::::::::::I still support having multiple articles if it gets enough support. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 00:02, 30 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
== American == | == American == | ||
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===Yes=== | ===Yes=== | ||
| − | [[User:CraigF|CraigF]] | + | #[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] |
| + | #I proposed it, so yes. --[[User:LeonardW|LeonardW]] 23:56, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
| + | #Men and women have inherently different societal roles which includes heroism. We see that plainly displayed in both infallible Biblical sources and modern scenarios such as Mr Schlafly's proper homeschooling techniques. Combining the two would be almost out of line. --[[User:RSnelik|RSnelik]] 23:59, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
| + | |||
===No=== | ===No=== | ||
#--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] | #--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] | ||
#American Heroism sounds like the best choice to me, but then again I'm one of those naughty liberals that doesn't wish to define people according to gender--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 23:40, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | #American Heroism sounds like the best choice to me, but then again I'm one of those naughty liberals that doesn't wish to define people according to gender--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 23:40, 29 August 2011 (EDT) | ||
Latest revision as of 04:02, August 30, 2011
Duplicate article?
Much of this ground is covered here. BrentH 21:14, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
Proposal
This article is a great idea, but the word "hero" generally is understood to refer to men; the feminine version is "heroine." I propose that the women on this list be moved to "American Heroines" on the grounds that thee article as it is denies the very basic differences between the sexes and promotes competition between the sexes. --LeonardW 21:38, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Hero is both a gender neutral and Masculine term, and there is no point in dividing up the article. It would do with some Title change for Plural (Since it's a list of people, not just a person or definition) and because that undercase h is bad wiki form--SeanS 21:40, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'd also recommend a shift to American Heroes (or American heroes, not sure about the capitalization for form's sake). Also, it should be gender inclusive, both men and women, without dividing the page into two factions. WesleySHello! 21:55, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I let's have an American heroines page. This gender neutral business is liberal PC stuff. --CraigF 23:11, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- It isn't Liberal and it isn't PC.--SeanS 23:13, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into thinking that women and men are the same. Next thing you'll be asking to change the article on Women to Womyn to remove the "gender bias." --CraigF 23:26, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I've been raised to not discriminate people, in a Conservative, literalist bible home, which are the beliefs i myself have. So, no, i don't plan to do that. Oh, and, just incase you forgot, man and woman are made in the image of god, not just man. --SeanS 23:30, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- No man was made in God's image, women where made from the rib of Adam. They are still loved by God and capable of great things, but it is unfortunate that Feminism has forced on them the idea that they are identical to men. --CraigF 23:33, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Genesis 1:27 "So god created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" ~ English Standard Version translation of the Bible. Both man and woman carry the image of god. That is not the same as one having the higher status (Which Man does have). --SeanS 23:37, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'm glad we are in agreement about man's higher status! Now we can debate whether we should have separate articles. Much like girls and boys were given separate tests in my home school group (unlike college where we all have to take the same tests), I think their are separate criteria that women should be judged by. --CraigF 23:41, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- And i disagree. I am in agreement that mans role is to be above the female role, that doesnt mean i agree that she does not have the image of god in her and is judged differently then man is. --SeanS 23:43, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- You are right that God will judge all of us with the same criteria in the end, but the status of hero is a worldly title which should be applied to men. Women can be heroines if they maintain their traditional roles and I strongly support having an article on this topic, but it should be seperate. --CraigF 23:45, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- And based on the number of edits that added woman in after you said "I see no woman", people disagree with you Craig :/--SeanS 23:47, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'm sure many liberals would disagree with me, that just makes me more assured in my position. However I prayed for a moment and actually came up with a compromise that would work for both of us. How about we have one article called American heroism and have two sections one called "Heroes" and one called "Heroines" it isn't how I would do it if I was in charge, but compromise is ok as long as it isn't your core principles. --CraigF 23:50, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Be careful with that word, Liberal, using it against people who disagree with you is a very quick way to ruin your standing. And sure, i'll go for that. I'm not a big conflict person :/--SeanS 23:54, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- You are right that God will judge all of us with the same criteria in the end, but the status of hero is a worldly title which should be applied to men. Women can be heroines if they maintain their traditional roles and I strongly support having an article on this topic, but it should be seperate. --CraigF 23:45, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- And i disagree. I am in agreement that mans role is to be above the female role, that doesnt mean i agree that she does not have the image of god in her and is judged differently then man is. --SeanS 23:43, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'm glad we are in agreement about man's higher status! Now we can debate whether we should have separate articles. Much like girls and boys were given separate tests in my home school group (unlike college where we all have to take the same tests), I think their are separate criteria that women should be judged by. --CraigF 23:41, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Genesis 1:27 "So god created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them" ~ English Standard Version translation of the Bible. Both man and woman carry the image of god. That is not the same as one having the higher status (Which Man does have). --SeanS 23:37, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- No man was made in God's image, women where made from the rib of Adam. They are still loved by God and capable of great things, but it is unfortunate that Feminism has forced on them the idea that they are identical to men. --CraigF 23:33, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I've been raised to not discriminate people, in a Conservative, literalist bible home, which are the beliefs i myself have. So, no, i don't plan to do that. Oh, and, just incase you forgot, man and woman are made in the image of god, not just man. --SeanS 23:30, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'm sorry you've been brainwashed into thinking that women and men are the same. Next thing you'll be asking to change the article on Women to Womyn to remove the "gender bias." --CraigF 23:26, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- It isn't Liberal and it isn't PC.--SeanS 23:13, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I let's have an American heroines page. This gender neutral business is liberal PC stuff. --CraigF 23:11, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- I'd also recommend a shift to American Heroes (or American heroes, not sure about the capitalization for form's sake). Also, it should be gender inclusive, both men and women, without dividing the page into two factions. WesleySHello! 21:55, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
American
The article states "American heros are men and women who represent American values." It says nothing about a requirement of the person having to be American. Saint Paul is clearly a hero to millions of Americans. I say we keep him in the examples. --MatthewQ 21:49, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- The fact the title is american pretty much means they must be an american. If we start including anybody we call heros, this is quickly going to spiral downwards.--SeanS 21:54, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- The 'American' can also refer to the them being a hero to Americans. Again, the definition the article uses does not state they have to be American. We should add that requirement, or let Jesus Christ and Saint Paul be included. --MatthewQ 22:06, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Yes this article should be about American heros. Jesus is obviously the biggest all time hero, but he wasn't an American. --CraigF 23:29, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- The 'American' can also refer to the them being a hero to Americans. Again, the definition the article uses does not state they have to be American. We should add that requirement, or let Jesus Christ and Saint Paul be included. --MatthewQ 22:06, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
Kimberley Munley
Her article on Conservapedia says her partner was far more important in stopping the shooting, and that the media downplayed his involvement. Perhaps someone can look into improving consistency? I would, but I am unfamiliar with the details of the shooting. Ask me about Aztecs, massage therapy, anatomy, and medical quackery and I can help. But not here.--CamilleT 23:21, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
Vote
Let's vote to see if we should have a separate article for American women who uphold American values but maintain their traditional role in the household. --CraigF 23:28, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
Yes
- CraigF
- I proposed it, so yes. --LeonardW 23:56, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
- Men and women have inherently different societal roles which includes heroism. We see that plainly displayed in both infallible Biblical sources and modern scenarios such as Mr Schlafly's proper homeschooling techniques. Combining the two would be almost out of line. --RSnelik 23:59, 29 August 2011 (EDT)
