Changes

'''{{days until|2020|08|02}} days waiting for a response'''

'''{{days until|2020|08|02}} days waiting for a response'''

======Answer from IndependentSkeptic ( 01:01, 3 August 2020 (EDT) )======

======Answer from IndependentSkeptic ( 01:01, 3 August 2020 (EDT) )======

Your question is a [[Loaded question]]. I consulted Dataclarifier. I believe we have an answer (two actually, if you wish to be exact):<br>(1) If a person believes the institution of the church's magisterium has divine authority from God because Jesus built his church on rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, because the church of the living God is the pillar and ground of the truth, as the Bible says—then the Bible-believer is obligated to submit to its every [[doctrine]] and [[dogma]] as the truth.<br>(2) If a person believes the institution of the church's magisterium has only the earthly authority of men, being by now an established authority on earth, and there is "''no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God''", and if the magisterium of the church is the institution of men—then the Bible-believer is obligated to submit to the institution of the magisterium of the church in its every doctrine and dogma.

Your question is a [[Loaded question]]. I consulted Dataclarifier. I believe we have an answer (two actually, if you wish to be exact):<br>(1) If a person believes the institution/ordinance of the church's magisterium has divine authority from God because Jesus built his church on rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, because the church of the living God is the pillar and ground of the truth, as the Bible says—then the Bible-believer is obligated to submit to its every [[doctrine]] and [[dogma]] as the truth.<br>(2) If a person believes the institution/ordinance of the church's magisterium has only the earthly authority of men, being by now an established authority on earth, and there is "''no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God''", and if the magisterium of the church is the institution/ordinance of men—then the Bible-believer is obligated to submit to the institution/ordinance of the magisterium of the church in its every doctrine and dogma.

:''Therefore'':  

:''Therefore'':  

:*if the ordinances of the Magisterium are from God the Bible commands that you submit;  

:*if the ordinances of the Magisterium are from God the Bible commands that you submit;  

:*if the Bible as the infallible Word of God says there is no power/authority but of God: the powers/authorities that be are ordained of God: whosoever therefore resisteth the power/authority, resisteth the ordinance of God: therefore they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation (and the Bible does say it)—then Bible-believers who resist the ordinances of the established power/authority of the magisterium of the church shall receive to themselves damnation.

:*if the Bible as the infallible Word of God says there is no power/authority but of God: the powers/authorities that be are ordained of God: whosoever therefore resisteth the power/authority, resisteth the ordinance of God: therefore they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation (and the Bible does say it)—then Bible-believers who resist the ordinances of the established power/authority of the magisterium of the church shall receive to themselves damnation.

:The Bible also commands: "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that ''is'' unprofitable for you."

:The Bible also commands: "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that ''is'' unprofitable for you."

'''So'''—we propose a counter-question: Is the Bible the Word of God? Will you obey the Word of God?<br>We'll leave it at that for you to answer. We're just asking the simple question. We don't intend to stay and debate it since this is our final edit on leaving Conservapedia. For us the answer seems obvious, so we won't be checking back for your response. We hope you have an answer, for the benefit of people who read this page. Peace be with you. --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 01:01, 3 August 2020 (EDT)

'''So'''—we propose a counter-question: Is the Bible the Word of God? Will you obey the Word of God?<br>We'll leave it at that for you to answer. We're just asking the simple question. We don't intend to stay and debate it since this is our final post on leaving Conservapedia. For us the answer seems obvious, so we won't be checking back for your response. We hope you have an answer, for the benefit of people who read this page. Peace be with you. --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 01:01, 3 August 2020 (EDT)

==Scripture has authority over the Roman church==

==Scripture has authority over the Roman church==