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→Were any Old Testament figures saved by grace or baptism?: specified "credobaptist doctrine of salvation by faith alone"
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
:The Law (or "the letter") killeth. Grace gives life. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 14:51, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
::"''So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures.''" You say they were already saved before any of this took place.<br>Either you have done away with the need for Christ by faith alone ''sola fide'', or you have confirmed the doctrine of "baptism of desire" by which all those "spirits in prison" were freed by the preaching of Christ himself because of their hope which waited (they were forced to wait) for his baptism of them in fulfillment of their desire for salvation 1 Peter 3:18-21. ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', '''1260'''
::"''So the gospel of salvation by grace has been preached since the beginning, long before the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ took place in fulfillment of the scriptures.''" You say they were already saved before any of this took place.<br>Either you have done away with the need for Christ by the credobaptist doctrine of salvation by faith alone ''sola fide'', or you have confirmed the doctrine of "baptism of desire" by which all those "spirits in prison" were freed by the preaching of Christ himself because of their hope which waited (they were forced to wait) for his baptism of them in fulfillment of their desire for salvation 1 Peter 3:18-21. ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', '''1260'''
:::"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have ''desired Baptism explicitly'' if they had known its necessity."
:::"Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have ''desired Baptism explicitly'' if they had known its necessity."
::Hebrews 11:39-40 says most explicitly,
::Hebrews 11:39-40 says most explicitly,
::::''3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness, etc.
::::''3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness, etc.
::::Cite scripture for your response, not church tradition, church doctrine, Catholic catechism, or any other teaching of man. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 16:12, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
::::Cite scripture for your response, not church tradition, church doctrine, Catholic catechism, or any other teaching of man. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 16:12, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
:::::'''I did cite scripture.''' My response each time was solidly based on scripture. Church doctrine supports scripture. You reject fundamental parts of the Bible and twist its meaning for the sake of your credobaptist tradition, "a tradition of men", which the vast body of all Christianity in the sixteenth century denounced as a Satanic heresy based on violation of the Bible itself. [[Cafeteria Christianity#Proof texts]]. And I will not reject Christian doctrine based for over sixteen centuries on the whole context of the Bible and the "mind of Christ" in the [[sensus fidelium]], [[sensus plenior]], [[sensus Christianorum]]. I am heedful of the warning of Peter 1 Peter 3:15-18. However much you press me to do so, I will not deny Christ. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:38, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
===Exodus chapter 33===
===Exodus chapter 33===