| Line 296: |
Line 296: |
| | | | |
| | Where was Abraham ever baptized? before the law of baptisms was ever was given (Leviticus, and elsewhere)? Abraham was circumcised, but circumcision is of the heart, not of the flesh. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:39, 30 October 2019 (EDT) | | Where was Abraham ever baptized? before the law of baptisms was ever was given (Leviticus, and elsewhere)? Abraham was circumcised, but circumcision is of the heart, not of the flesh. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:39, 30 October 2019 (EDT) |
| − |
| |
| − | ===Exodus chapter 33===
| |
| − | :::1 Cor. 10:4 ''all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.''
| |
| − | :::Exodus 33: ''And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for '''thou hast found grace in my sight'''''
| |
| − | :::''Behold, '''there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock''''' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 12:49, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
| |
| − | ::::God also told Moses, "My face you shall not see, for no one can see my face and live" (Exodus 33:18-23). Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up on the mountain, and they did see the God of Israel up on the top of the peak, but only from a distance, not up close (Exodus 24:9-11). Abuse of the statement that Moses talked with God "face to face" has been competently answered by qualified biblical scholars as a Semitic expression of intimate friendship of communion, not a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus face to face, nor a direct visual encounter of the [[Beatific vision]]. These scholars also explain that the "gospel" preached to Israel in the wilderness of Sanai was not the Christian revelation, but the good news in the law revealed to Moses explaining the rewards of obedience "if you obey my word". That message included the promise of a Prophet to come. <br> In answer to the challenge of reconciling Moses and John – Take a look at the commentaries on [http://biblehub.com/commentaries/deuteronomy/5-4.htm Deuteronomy 5:4 "The L<small>ORD</small> spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of fire."] Their answer is mine also. Moses beheld the presence of the Lord, and spoke with Him "face to face", but he did not see the face of God. The scholars have explained all this. I agree with them. The challenge to reconcile Moses and John has been met and answered already. Their response is my response as well. This makes me and them "competent to explain" the scriptures according to "the mind of Christ".
| |
| − | :::::That's your response?
| |
| − | :::::*Mark 7:13 ''Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 15:58, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
| |
| − | :::::God didn't mean what he said, or he was too stupid to clarify himself. He needed human scholars and teachers to set it straight, huh? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 15:59, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
| |
| − | ::::::He said, "Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." It is you who make the word of God of no effect through your credobaptist tradition. That is why credobaptists in the sixteenth century were condemned by Protestants and Catholics for abuse of the scriptures. Documented ''[[anathema]]s'' against credobaptism go all the way back to the 3rd century. And Protestants agreed.
| |
| − |
| |
| − | ::::::Conservative Christian historians and [[Christian apologetics|apologists]] are mindful of this statement by [[John Eck]] addressed to [[Martin Luther]], in the year 1521:<ref>Eck's statement here is supremely appropriate in light of Luther's refusal to submit to the judgment of the Church, the emperor Charles V, and the [[Pope]], and the teaching of Paul in [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13:1-5&version=KJV Romans 13:1-5].</ref><blockquote>
| |
| − | ::::::"...there is no one of the [[Heresy|heresies]] which have torn the bosom of the church, which has not derived its origin from the various interpretation of the Scripture. The Bible itself is the arsenal whence each innovator has drawn his [[ Specious reasoning|deceptive arguments]]. It was with biblical texts that [[Pelagianism|Pelagius]] and [[Arius]] maintained their doctrines. Arius, for instance, found the negation of the eternity of the Word—an eternity which you admit, in this verse of the New Testament—''Joseph knew not his wife till she had brought forth her first-born son''; and he said, in the same way that you say, that this passage '''enchained''' him. When the fathers of the [[council of Constance]] condemned this proposition of [[John Huss]]—''The church of Jesus Christ is only the community of the elect'', they condemned an error; for the church, like a good mother, embraces within her arms all who bear the name of Christian, all who are called to enjoy the celestial beatitude."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/luther/lutherbyluther.html#secondnarrative|title=Life of Luther (Luther by Martin Luther)|author=Martin Luther|publisher=}}</ref>
| |
| − | </blockquote>
| |
| − |
| |
| − | ::::::(Compare the article on [[Hypocrites]].) --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:59, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
| |
| − | :::::::Did God speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend (Martin Luther has nothing to do with this question). The answer is a simple 'yes' or 'no'.
| |
| − | :::::::The next question is: Are there contradictions in the bible? Is the bible inviolate? (Here, scholars, church teaching, and church tradition can't help you. Your response is entirely dependent on your faith). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|De Plorabus Unum]]</sup> 17:11, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
| |
| − |
| |
| − | ====References====
| |
| − | {{reflist}}
| |
| | | | |
| | == Let Us Reason Ministries - a Pentecostal refutation of ''[[sola fide]]'' - "Did Jesus or the apostles heal everyone because of their faith?" == | | == Let Us Reason Ministries - a Pentecostal refutation of ''[[sola fide]]'' - "Did Jesus or the apostles heal everyone because of their faith?" == |