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→Definition and implications: Three replies
::::Just like there are no people who are just "theists" and nothing else, there are no "atheists" that are only atheists. Christians don't base their actions, explicitly or implicitly, on the assumption that there exist "a god", but on their belief in a "particular God", the holy trinity. Likewise, no atheists bases his actions merely on the belief that there is no god. Some base their actions on the notion of a social contract, some on humanism, others on hedonism, existentialism, nihilism, scientism, or their own home brew of philosophy. This is also a reason why it is problematic to label "atheism" as a religion, because other than their disbelief, they have very little in common. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:45, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
::::Just like there are no people who are just "theists" and nothing else, there are no "atheists" that are only atheists. Christians don't base their actions, explicitly or implicitly, on the assumption that there exist "a god", but on their belief in a "particular God", the holy trinity. Likewise, no atheists bases his actions merely on the belief that there is no god. Some base their actions on the notion of a social contract, some on humanism, others on hedonism, existentialism, nihilism, scientism, or their own home brew of philosophy. This is also a reason why it is problematic to label "atheism" as a religion, because other than their disbelief, they have very little in common. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:45, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
:::::I agree with you. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:48, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:::::I agree with you. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:48, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
::::::I don't. I agree that Atheism is not "a religion" in the sense that theism is not "a religion"; both are ''categories'', if you like, of religious beliefs. But just as theism is a category of religions, so is atheism. But see a following post of mine, below.
::::::Sure, I base my actions on my particular views about Who God is. And Atheists will base their actions on their particular views. But the fact remains that those views are views about the non-existence of God. As such, their actions are based on their Atheistic beliefs just as mine are based on my theistic beliefs.
::::::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:46, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:so you'd argue that theism isn't a religion either but rather a tenet of several religions? Interesting ... Would you call secular humanism a religion? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 00:18, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:so you'd argue that theism isn't a religion either but rather a tenet of several religions? Interesting ... Would you call secular humanism a religion? [[User:Ungtss|Ungtss]] 00:18, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
::I agree with Order. Atheism is lack of religion, not religion. Secular humanism, likewise, is a philosophy that operates outside of religion. When we blur the distinction, religion, or what it means to have a religion, becomes watered down as to be any closely held belief from which someone derives a worldview. So Communism becomes a religion, Freudian psychology becomes a religion, etc. I believe any definition of religion that allows that is missing the mark. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:48, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
::I agree with Order. Atheism is lack of religion, not religion. Secular humanism, likewise, is a philosophy that operates outside of religion. When we blur the distinction, religion, or what it means to have a religion, becomes watered down as to be any closely held belief from which someone derives a worldview. So Communism becomes a religion, Freudian psychology becomes a religion, etc. I believe any definition of religion that allows that is missing the mark. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:48, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
::::In what way is it "missing the mark"? One problem with your argument is that it seems to assume that "religion" is, in and of itself, something good. But to the extent that each religion disagrees with each other, there can be at most only one "good" (i.e. correct) religion. So each incorrect "religion" is no better, and arguably worse ({{Bible ref|Revelation|3|16}}), than atheism.
::::Furthermore, by defining Atheism as not being a religious view, Atheists can have their views taught in American schools where "religion" is not allowed. How's that for favoured treatment?! Define everyone else's view—but not your own—as "religion", then disallow "religion" from being taught in schools! Brilliant!
::::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:46, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:::You could call secular humanism a religion. I'd feel it is a bit of a stretch, but they do have core beliefs, and are not too far from Buddhism, which is typically called religion. But that why we should distinguish between "real" religions, and "philosophies of life" that you might call "religion". Atheism isn't even a philosophy of life. And a real religion is typically more than just a philosophy of life. [[User:Order|Order]] 02:16, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
:::You could call secular humanism a religion. I'd feel it is a bit of a stretch, but they do have core beliefs, and are not too far from Buddhism, which is typically called religion. But that why we should distinguish between "real" religions, and "philosophies of life" that you might call "religion". Atheism isn't even a philosophy of life. And a real religion is typically more than just a philosophy of life. [[User:Order|Order]] 02:16, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
::::But again, it comes back to the definitions. The ''fact'' is that there are several definitions of the word. It's also a fact that Atheism is not a religion ''according to one or more of those definitions''. But I don't agree that it's a fact that Atheism does not fit ''any'' of the definitions. So I maintain that Atheism is a religious view by at least one of those definitions.
::::And the point of all this? Atheists frequently lump all "religions" together (i.e. anything other than atheism or its variants) as somehow "different" to Atheism. Yet, as I explained above, ''both'' are core beliefs on which our actions are based. Atheism is not qualitatively "better" than religion simply because it's atheistic, yet that's the way they very frequently seem to argue. The very argument here, that theists base their actions on their particular theistic beliefs whilst atheists don't, is a case in point.
::::[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:46, 11 September 2007 (EDT)